How can I get them in the same guide?

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amethyst rain
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:12 pm
Location: South Dakota

How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by amethyst rain » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:50 am

I have four children, all two years appart. I really don't want to end up in four different guides at a time. Currently I have P(6) in LHFHG with the 1st grade extentions; J(4) in LHTH. The other two are 2 and 3 months. I'd like to get P and J into the same guide. Though my problem is that P is doing great in LHFHG and would be very bored if I slowed down and J is not ready for LHFHG yet. Am I just going to have them in different guides? Is there a way to combine them down the road?

I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, I've seen and read the threads. I'm still not sure how to do it for OUR family. :wink:

my3sons
Posts: 10594
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Location: South Dakota

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by my3sons » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:09 am

amethyst rain wrote:I have four children, all two years appart. I really don't want to end up in four different guides at a time. Currently I have P(6) in LHFHG with the 1st grade extentions; J(4) in LHTH. The other two are 2 and 3 months. I'd like to get P and J into the same guide. Though my problem is that P is doing great in LHFHG and would be very bored if I slowed down and J is not ready for LHFHG yet. Am I just going to have them in different guides? Is there a way to combine them down the road?

I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, I've seen and read the threads. I'm still not sure how to do it for OUR family. :wink:
May I ask, why do you want them to be in the same guide? Are you having difficulty doing both LHFHG and LHTH, or does one of them not seem to be doing what's right for their age and abilities? It sounds like you've got a good thing going, and it's honestly not always easier to combine. We're in 3 guides with our 3 sons, and it's easy-peasy. :D It sounds like your dc are typical in that the oldest is somewhat advanced doing first grade options with LHFHG, and your 4 yo is accurately placed in LHTH. Combining means shooting for the middle unless dc are truly at the same academic place in their learning. This is what will happen with anything you choose to do with them, as their needs and abilities are different. However, if you want to combine, I'd say it is definitely doable. :D I'd just speed up the 4 yo and slow down the 6 yo. You can do full-speed LHTH, start phonics instruction and some writing instruction as soon as dd is able, as her gaining reading and writing skills will make it easier to combine with older more advanced big brother. Your older ds can then go to half-speed LHFHG, with full speed 3 R's, and your dd can meet him at the second half of LHFHG next year. You'll probably easily be able to combine the youngest two down the road - it just seems the oldest child takes off more, making combining with the next child tougher. What are your thoughts on all this? I know others will have ideas too. :)

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USII, MTMM
Wife to Rich for 25 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 20, 17, and 13
Author of Women's Devotional https://www.ebay.com/itm/293355757184
Blogger https://my3sons-julie.blogspot.com/
Sister to Carrie

amethyst rain
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:12 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by amethyst rain » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:54 am

I was thinking of combining them because I don't think I want to end up in four different guides when they are all school age. Wouldn't that take forever to finish it all in a day? Though next year I do plan on going half speed(left side every other day) with BLHFHG, so my oldest will use it for 2nd and 3rd.

Maybe I'm just doing the typical begining homeschooler thing and thinking too far ahead and getting concerned about it all before I'm actually there. :wink: I really just want to do what's best for all of them and they seem to be doing just fine where they are at.

my3sons
Posts: 10594
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by my3sons » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:18 pm

You can easily combine with HOD, just like you can with other curriculums, but combining is not always what's best for dc or for moms. :wink: I'm going to say this because I wish I had heard it when I first began homeschooling, as all I ever heard was I would need to combine my dc for homeschooling to work because it was "easier", and otherwise I'd "burn out". I wish I'd heard that combining works very well in some situations, while not combining works very well in some other situations. :D

When dc are farther apart in ability and maturity, it just makes good sense not to combine, as they have totally different needs from each other. Let's say for instance that a younger child is not reading and writing well, but an older child is reading chapter books and writing paragraphs. Charlotte Mason would say that older child should be moved toward reading their own material in all subject areas (CM said roughly around the age 9), as this promotes better retention and narration skills. If a 9 yo child is ready to fly with this type of independence but is paired with a younger sibling not yet close to reading, this forces the parent to be reading everything out loud to both of them in order for them to be combined. This makes combining take longer than teaching separate programs would take, and it prevents the older child from doing skills they should be doing for their age.

Likewise, if an older child is writing well and ready for written narration instruction (CM said roughly around the age 10), but is paired with a younger sibling not writing, the parent is forced to find something else for the younger child not yet writing to do (often something that is a skill far below this skill that is independent, such as coloring, as they cannot read or write yet). There is nothing wrong with coloring, but then at what point does younger child receive that excellent guided written narration instruction that the older child received? Often they don't, as the older child is always on to the next harder skill, while the younger is still just doing something to "tread water" while the older child finishes. Often the gap widens, and the parent is forced to continue to read everything aloud as the younger child cannot read independently yet. Or, because the older child has continued to move up in guides, even by the time the younger child can read, the reading is so incredibly difficult, that child still cannot read the material - which means either the parent is still reading aloud to the duo (again the older student missing vital independent skills) or the need to separate the two becomes so very obvious at this point as the mom is all but hoarse from reading pages aloud that were never meant to be read aloud by the parent. This can set up a precedence to be teaching to the older child's needs instead of the younger child's needs, and over time the younger child will just need something different. You can see how, because older child never did get to read the material on his own, the parent never did have time freed up to work with the younger child, who really probably needed more instruction earlier on. :wink:

Now imagine 2 dc who are quite close in ability. The younger is doing phonics and writing individual letters, while the older is just starting to read 3 letter words and is just beginning to write 3 letter words. Combining these dc together makes much sense! They will both require the parent to read the learning material aloud, and they will both require time to grow into doing reading and writing independently. There is no reason they cannot both do the same history, science, poetry, Bible reading, etc., and while they may need separate reading and math instruction, this is fairly easy to accomplish. LIkewise, imagine older dc, who are both reading and writing fairly well, one who is reading chapter books, and one who is reading longer chapter books. HOD makes it easy to combine these dc as the younger child can do the program as is, and the older child can do the extensions. If the older child is writing pages, and the younger child is writing paragraphs, both can easily receive instruction on written narration practice, with one completing more than the other. :D Combining is a winning situation here, as long as the younger child is not being asked to listen to material that is too mature for her ears. :wink:

When combining, it's important not to fool ourselves into thinking it will automatically be easier because it is 1 program to teach vs. several programs to teach. Sometimes just finishing the 4 yo's school in 30 minutes, and finishing the 6 yo's school in 2 1/2 hours because that's where they place best, is super easy compared to trying to slow things down so the 4 yo can catch up to the 6 yo, or trying to rush along 4 yo to catch up to the 6 yo. Other times, combining is the perfect answer as dc are close in abilities, work well together, and place in similar guides anyway. I will say either way, the single biggest factor in making homeschooling multiple dc easier is when dc reach the age of being able to read material on their own - both directions in guides and materials in living books. The next biggest factor would be when they are writing fairly well on their own. It is necessary for dc to move toward this independence in their learning as along with it comes age appropriate skills. I hope that helps as you consider what's best for your dc - whether it be combining or not combining. :D

In Christ,
Julie

ETA: Outside circumstances also can play a part in whether or not to consider combining. For example, working outside the home many hours, dc with health concerns where many doctor's appointments are necessary, being in poor health yourself, and having a very large family and being stretched thin, etc. Thinking back to the wonderful ladies I've met at book fairs, these are also important things to consider when choosing whether to combine or not. :wink:
Last edited by my3sons on Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USII, MTMM
Wife to Rich for 25 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 20, 17, and 13
Author of Women's Devotional https://www.ebay.com/itm/293355757184
Blogger https://my3sons-julie.blogspot.com/
Sister to Carrie

gotpeace91
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by gotpeace91 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:37 pm

my3sons wrote:Likewise, if an older child is writing well and ready for written narration instruction (CM said roughly around the age 10), but is paired with a younger sibling not writing, the parent is forced to find something else for the younger child not yet writing to do (often something that is a skill far below this skill that is independent, such as coloring, as they cannot read or write yet). There is nothing wrong with coloring, but then at what point does younger child receive that excellent guided written narration instruction that the older child received? Often they don't, as the older child is always on to the next harder skill, while the younger is still just doing something to "tread water" while the older child finishes. Often the gap widens, and the parent is forced to continue to read everything aloud as the younger child cannot read independently yet. Or, because the older child has continued to move up in guides, even by the time the younger child can read, the reading is so incredibly difficult, that child still cannot read the material - which means either the parent is still reading aloud to the duo (again the older student missing vital independent skills) or the need to separate the two becomes so very obvious at this point as the mom is all but hoarse from reading pages aloud that were never meant to be read aloud by the parent. This can set up a precedence to be teaching to the older child's needs instead of the younger child's needs, and over time the younger child will just need something different. You can see how, because older child never did get to read the material on his own, the parent never did have time freed up to work with the younger child, who really probably needed more instruction earlier on. :wink:
I don't know how many times I nodded my head or thought Amen while reading this, Julie! :lol: I don't know why I didn't say something right away when I realized dd couldn't do the independent portions of Preparing independently. I guess I was having fun exploring the awesome books in HOD. :D Anyway, Amethyst Rain, I just wanted to encourage you to ponder on what Julie has said in case any of this may apply to your situation. I've been there done that and wish I would have just put them in separate guides last year, but I was concerned about finances. Had I to do it over I would have just bought the two separate programs a little at a time to help spread out the cost a little bit. Also, I think that it may help timewise that the two children will not have to share the same books.
~Leah
Wife to the Man I Love since 1994
DS 15 Missions to Modern Marvels
DD 14 Resurrection to Reformation

amethyst rain
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:12 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by amethyst rain » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:00 pm

Thank you Julie. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I'm thinking that my middle two may be able to be in the same guide, now that I have had time to ponder things. I know in my heart that my oldest needs to just keep going and ds(4) needs to stay where he is right now. They are both doing very well.

krismoose
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:56 am
Location: Arizona

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by krismoose » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:55 pm

Thanks, Julie, for that wonderful explanation and examples of how combining can work well or not...Excellent food for thought for those of us considering this down the road! This would be a great post to bookmark for later!
Kristen
Loved LHTH & LHFHG :)
DS8 (2nd) WWE1, HOD dictation, Sequential Spelling, SM 2B, VP OT/AE & SOTW1 history, Song School Latin, Getting Started With Spanish
DD6 (K) Saxon Math 1, VP Phonics Museum K
DD3 cutting, gluing, more cutting :D

Lynnw
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:33 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by Lynnw » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:07 pm

I am so thankful I read this thread even though I didn't initially think it applied to me (or that I would know anything to be helpful either).

Julie's post about spelling out different situations that make combining a positive vs. a negative was what I needed to hear (read, rather)! Thank you so much for taking the time to explain it as you did! I'm going to read it again and I'm sure I'll chew on it for awhile. (I feel like I should say more, but I'm just sitting here with my mouth hanging open, LOL!)
Married 19 years to Dh, Detective and Army Reservist: 1 tour in Iraq, 1 tour in Afghanistan
ds 12.5 (7th grade) RevtoRev
ds 9.5 (4th grade) Preparing

dd 8 (3rd grade) Beyond
ds 6 (K/1st grade) Beyond
dd 3

gotpeace91
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by gotpeace91 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:23 pm

Maybe this should be a sticky... :D
~Leah
Wife to the Man I Love since 1994
DS 15 Missions to Modern Marvels
DD 14 Resurrection to Reformation

crlacey
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: NC

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by crlacey » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:02 am

gotpeace91 wrote:Maybe this should be a sticky... :D
I agree this needs to be made available for future reference somehow since I can't be the only one who struggles with the combining or not to combine issue.

Thanks Julie for saying so well what issues are best to be considered.
Crystal
DD 15 WH
DS 13 RTR
DD 5 LHFHG

Finished: LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG, PHFHG, CTC, Res to Ref, Rev to Rev, MTMM, parts of WG and WH

crlacey
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:13 pm
Location: NC

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by crlacey » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:14 pm

Just giving this thread a well deserved bump up since we have a lot of new people coming asking questions about combining. Julie gave us some great things to consider in this thread.
Crystal
DD 15 WH
DS 13 RTR
DD 5 LHFHG

Finished: LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG, PHFHG, CTC, Res to Ref, Rev to Rev, MTMM, parts of WG and WH

Carrie
Site Admin
Posts: 8058
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: How can I get them in the same guide?

Post by Carrie » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:19 pm

Ladies,

I just wanted to let you know that I added this thread to our commonly asked questions sticky linked here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7019

I agree that this thread contains such helpful examples and such wise counsel that will benefit many families. :D My sister, Julie, gives terrific advice! She is an amazing teacher with her master's degree in educational administration and many years of classroom and homeschool teaching experience. Plus, she has an amazing heart for tirelessly helping others! :D I am blessed daily by her presence on the board.

Blessings,
Carrie

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