Struggling with separating the kids

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waitleys
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:17 pm

Struggling with separating the kids

Post by waitleys » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:21 pm

This fall will be our first year with HOD and it is so what we have been looking for. I asked a question a few days ago about what level would be best for my soon to be 7 yr. old and while I completely know that he should be in Beyond while our dd 10 is in Bigger I am still having such a hard time with it. I think I have separation anxiety! :? We have combined them for everything except math and lang. since they were old enough to be in school. Our oldest is in 10th this year and until he hit high school we combined all of them. We used Sonlight geared to the oldest and watered down for the youngest. Anyway, I just spent some more time looking over the Beyond and Bigger guides and I know ds and dd 4 (she will do LHTH) are going to want to do the Bigger projects too. How did you handle your little guys wanting to do the older guys projects along with them? Ds has a fantastic memory so I don't want the following year to be boring since he already did it all. Did you find that your kids didn't feel the need to do the other kids' projects and were content with their own?

I think I am also having a hard time trying to wrap my brain around doing two complete guides. I am not worried about LHTH with dd but we do also have an older child that still needs my attention from time to time. We have a SUPER limited time frame since we own our own business and have to leave everyday by 10:30 to get there and I think that nags at me also. Icks, just trying to figure this all out since it is new. Thanks so much for the help!
In Christ, Judy
Helpmeet to My Best Friend
Homeschooling Our Clan

8arrows
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Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by 8arrows » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:45 am

Is your 7 year old close enough to Bigger to be able to work on some of the skills over the summer so that you can keep them together? I personally would not want to do back to back guides, but there are ladies on the board who do and enjoy it. If your time is pretty limited, I would think 1 guide would be preferable. Could you take Bigger slower for just a little while to get the 7 year old going? Are you using the extensions with your 10 year old? Please note that this post is coming from someone who does like to combine so you may see that bias. That is why it is great to hear from all the ladies on the board.
Melissa, wife to Jim for 28 years
3 graduated, 2 using US 2, 8th grade dd using Missions to Marvels
Isaiah 40:11 ...He gently leads those that have young.

MomtoJGJE
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Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by MomtoJGJE » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:20 am

As far as convincing them about the projects I just tell them they have their own that their siblings don't do and that when they get to that guide they'll get to do them.

My DD1 is currently in Bigger. She will be 8 in April and could be about halfway through by then. We took a few months before starting it to work on her handwriting endurance and her reading abilities. Then she jumped in without a hitch. I'm slowly adding in more writing as the year progresses. We just upped to two vocabulary words/week and we'll add in writing part of her English in May with the goal of writing all of it by the end of Bigger. She's also copying the whole poem each week and copying her Bible verse and is now writing a good portion of her DITHOR work.

What if you started your 7yo in Bigger half speed a little while before you start your 10yo full speed? Then when they meet in a unit you could have them go on together full speed? Like if you start 2 months with your 7yo before you start with your 10yo you would be in Unit 5 with your 7yo when the older starts... Then in another 2 months they would be at the same unit... so you'd get 4 months of half speed with your 7yo for him to gain maturity and then move on together at full speed.

With all that said, it's really not hard to do two or more guides at one time.

water2wine
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Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by water2wine » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:50 am

Just going back and reading your first post I think your first instinct is probably correct. :D
We own our own business, music and homeschool supply store, so I work everyday in the store and if we didn't have time constraints I wouldn't even consider putting him in Bigger. On the other hand, I don't want to overwhelm him and want him to get the most out of what we are doing.
With one size fits all programs you can get away with this but you will find yourself filling in a lot of gaps and tweaking. I have gone that route. I found it draining. :cry: The great thing about HOD is it meets your child within a range of their needs. :D There is room for about two grade levels or so to fit. In the younger end they filling in a lot of skills and to me that gap seems more narrow where you can be fitting in skill ranges. They are just learning so many foundational skills. :) It really turns out that hitting them right at their perfect fit is less work even if you are running two programs than trying to squeeze them all in to one if the fit is off.

Sometimes if the gap is not too terribly wide people do well with using Beyond for the right side only in LA and math then using Bigger for the left side for the main part of the program. Then the older child does Bigger as written. This can really work well for catching one child up or a child that might be slow in LA in Math but can handle the rest of the program. :D You might then be using the Bigger manual in the same way when doing Preparing for the younger child the next year. It is less work than doing two programs if that is a good fit. If you are really compromising the younger child with being able to meet their needs even that way then you are going to make more work than doing two programs.

Having said all that doing two programs is really not such a big deal. The results of meeting them at their perfect need level is really worth the effort. I find my days are actually much shorter this way than trying to do a one size fits all program. And the flow is effortless. We had a dentist appointment today and they asked what we were going to study when we got home. They were a little shocked when I said I honestly do not know. :shock: But the truth is HOD is so open and go I never worry about what we are going to be doing ahead of time. I just open and go, literally. :D That gives us so much peace in our day. I hate to see you lose the ease in the program with worry about what it might be. I think you are going to find if you get them the best fit possible it will be able to work around your busy schedule. If anything is going to be easy for someone who has to work and hs, HOD would be it. Try to take a look with the worry aside and pray over what will serve your children best. I promise you that will be the least time consuming and the easiest to run for you in the long run. :D

Praying for your decision. :D
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

waitleys
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:17 pm

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by waitleys » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:40 pm

Thank you so much for all of the help ladies. It truly is appreciated. I know that when we have combined things in the past, I have had to fill so many gaps and pull so many other things together to get it all to work, it ends up being tons of work. I think I need to go with my first instinct and separate them. I do really love how the guides are open and go and if I am having add things in, it is no longer open and go. I am back at the place of trying to make it work which I know I don't have time for. There are 3 grade levels between these two kiddos and the younger is SOOOO busy and just needs extra time. I am thinking I can play up the this is special time with mommy just for you thing and that will help him to really focus on his stuff instead of seeing what his sister is doing and thinking he needs to do it too.
In Christ, Judy
Helpmeet to My Best Friend
Homeschooling Our Clan

tnahid
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:51 am
Location: Texas

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by tnahid » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:38 pm

If separating is your instinct, it is probably correct. But I just want to say that I use Beyond for my 7 and 10 year old, and it has worked out well for us. I just use higher math and LA for the older one, and a bit more science for him. Next year, they will do Bigger with extensions for my 10 year old. So it IS do-able, and I have been very happy with it. But you know your individual sons best and what they like. If your son is pretty advanced and emotionally quite a bit more mature, separation would work well. But if your older is a bit immature emotionally and/or academically, I think Beyond is a great fit personally. Blessings.
Tina
ds 11 -- DITHOR 4/5 and other curriculum
ds 9 -- Preparing and DITHOR
dd 5 -- 1st grade variety of curriculum
Wife of a loving DH 12 years
starting our 4th year of home education, 3rd year of HOD and DITHOR, so blessed...what a journey!

abrightmom
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by abrightmom » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:05 pm

I am watching this thread with keen interest as we are grappling with this very issue right now....HOD has been the desire of my heart for a long time but we pin pointed what has been nagging me below the surface. The combining/separating issue... I am praying a lot about it and would love to hear from more HOD Moms who have dealt with this. If my children were more spread out age wise I think the issue would not nag me as it has. But my oldest three are within 3.5 years of each other...
Katrina 8) Wife to Ben, husband extraordinaire! God is so good!
2019-2020 plans
Jax DS17 HOD subjects: US1 Lit + US2 LL + IPC
Logan DS15 MtMM + extensions
Chloe DD13 MtMM
Levi DS10 PHFHG

eachlee
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:30 am

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by eachlee » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:25 pm

I really appreciate this thread! I have also struggled with the idea of separating or keeping the kids together. Thank you for asking this question. :)
Nancy, mom to 3
DS6 - LHFHG, ER and BLHFHG Spelling
DD5 - LHFHG
DS3 - My little climber

We have also loved using LHTH!

tnahid
Posts: 531
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:51 am
Location: Texas

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by tnahid » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:10 pm

Next year, I plan to have my 2 boys do more independently with Bigger, but I do still plan to combine History, Storytime, Bible, and Poetry. I hope to have my sons do their science experiments together independently without me too much involved. And of course, my oldest will do extensions independently as well.

So mainly the left side of the manual is together still. But I think next year I am going to wait and do the left side while my daughter is taking a rest/nap time in her room, so that I can just do it with the boys. She is a bit hyper and tends to take away from discussions a little as it is this year. She is still really good about listening overall, but I think it will just be better for her to be napping while I read aloud and work with them. She will be doing LHFHG with me anyway.

My boys are 2 and a half years apart and it just works really well to combine them right now in those subjects in my opinion. I can't really imagine teaching two separate ones with the closeness in maturity level.
Tina
ds 11 -- DITHOR 4/5 and other curriculum
ds 9 -- Preparing and DITHOR
dd 5 -- 1st grade variety of curriculum
Wife of a loving DH 12 years
starting our 4th year of home education, 3rd year of HOD and DITHOR, so blessed...what a journey!

Carrie
Site Admin
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Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by Carrie » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:55 pm

Judy,

Typically we don't recommend using two guides back-to-back, as you'd end up on the path of repeating guides for years to come. :D Sometimes it works out that families are using back-to-back guides, but this more often happens when kiddos are using a guide together and one child is not keeping up with it and either backs up a guide or slows down the guide they're in to half-speed (while the other child in that guide continues at full-speed). :D

Anyway, with the age spread of your kiddos, I'm thinking of a few things. First if your oldest is going into 5th grade, unless there are some learning challenges there, then combining with the 2nd grader in Beyond is not going to be your best option. Pushing the 7 year old forward, especially if that child is still working on phonics could mean you'd be dragging him along for years to come. I am for combining when it works well, it is truly the way we write our guides, but each child's developmental skill level really makes the world of difference in how well combining works. So what works for one family may not be best for another. :wink: This is why we do so much talking about skill level and where each child is at in so many areas. Typically, the difference in skills required for a 2nd grader and a 5th grader is pretty large. :wink:

With that being said, I'm wondering if your 5th grader might be better placed in Preparing Hearts? Without knowing more about your 5th grader, I can't say for sure, but that is definitely something to ponder. Preparing Hearts is a 4 day program, which would allow you to carry some work over onto the 5th day as needed or instead give you 3 days off each week if you preferred. It would make sense with your schedule to also teach Beyond as a 4 day program as well, just carrying it over into the next school year 9 weeks to finish. This will keep you on a more manageable path each week in striving to get it done. Preparing Hearts has 2 independent boxes each day written to the student, which also will help gain you time with your child in Beyond. :D

Not to add to your struggle, but just wanting to be sure of the right placement as it makes a huge difference in success. Hope this helps! :D

Blessings,
Carrie

waitleys
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:17 pm

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by waitleys » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:41 pm

This is one of the most helpful boards I have ever been on!! Amazing thoughts ladies!! Although dd, going into 5th, would probably be capable of doing the majority of the work in Preparing, I know that she would really enjoy Bigger w/extensions. She is a very timid child, struggles with self-confidence issues in her school work, and hasn't done very much in the way of consistent history/science. We have used Sonlight a lot in the past but it was geared to our oldest and she really just tagged along here and there as I had to pull together so many extra resources. And, I have to admit, I was terribly at keeping up with it! I do think Bigger is a better place for her because it would give her such a boost in her "academic confidence".

So I guess I have another question. :P What is the disadvantage to doing back to back guides? Ds is just not ready for Bigger and dd is just not ready for Preparing. So I am starting to really get used to the idea of separating them but we will be in back to back guides. Because we have never used HOD it doesn't really seem like it would matter to me but again, we haven't used HOD. :wink:

Now I am even considering doing some of R to R for ds in high school that is 15. :-) We were going to do another curriculum but after looking at it in person I see the amount the amount of reading (he really doesn't like to read that much!) it would require for him personally and he would just have a heart attack. I think he could do HOD and actually enjoy it!

Oh wait, my separating question again, what are the disadvantages to doing back to back guides? :D
In Christ, Judy
Helpmeet to My Best Friend
Homeschooling Our Clan

MomtoJGJE
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Location: Gastonia, NC

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by MomtoJGJE » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:53 am

Well, for me, the disadvantage of doing back to back guides is that *I* tend to get bored with it and I forget that it's all NEW to the one I'm teaching. If you skip a year with it, it makes it an old friend to come back to :)

With that said, I'm going to be doing back to back guides for the next couple of years because I had them combined at first and am now separating them. But I'm doing it slowly. :) In the fall I'll be starting Beyond with DD2 in September, and then LHFHG in November half speed with DD3. I'm hoping the she stays content with half speed for long enough that I can have at least half the year difference with them (Like starting DD2 in Bigger summer 2012, but DD3 in beyond in early 2013.

I just have to make sure that my younger one doesn't get a disservice from ME. That *I* don't extend my burn out to her!

Gwenny
Posts: 750
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Location: Texas

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by Gwenny » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:05 am

I just wanted to say that my high school daughter is doing CtC this year, but 5 days a week to speed it up a little, and she LOVES it. It is so interesting to her and a nice change from what we were doing. She loves having it all spelled out for her what to do each day. We added extensions, plus some. We are doing some of the books for DITHOR that Carrie recommended for high school. Reading is definitely her passion, so it's only a struggle to not read the whole book in a day or 2.

Nancy
Nancy
Dd29 married (w/2 sons 1/2/14, 5/24/16), ds27, dd25 married (w/dd born 8/9/16), dd25, dd22
Dd 19 HS in special ed
Dd14 RevtoRev
Ds12 RevtoRev
Ds 9 Preparing
Dd 5 LHFHG

my3sons
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Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by my3sons » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:56 pm

What an amazing thread this has been! :D Such good thoughts here - I love this flexibility with HOD - it gives such a more customized fit than a one size fits all program can. Well, I'll share some thoughts on your last question... back to back guides. I agree with a pp that mentioned it's more about us moms than dc. To keep thing fresh from year to year for us moms, it's simply nice to teach something different, and then coming back to a guide after a year or so off does feel like coming back to an old friend (aptly said by pp). :D However, this really may not be a big deal to some moms. I think it depends how many times you'll be teaching a guide too. If you have quite a large family, and could potentially be teaching some guides 4+ times, than that is something to consider. Also, I think it depends WHICH guides are taught back to back. LHTH, for example, can easily be taught back to back - it doesn't take long, and it has several Bibles and devotionals to choose from, so simply choosing a different Bible and a different devotional the second year switches it up for us moms. :wink: Likewise, teaching the upper guides back to back (i.e. CTC, RTR, on up) seems like it would be no big deal. Our teaching time in those guides is more streamlined, and the discussions are heartfelt and personal, which seems to give an altogether different teaching experience with our different dc, as usually, they are quite different from one another in needs, personalities, and interests and therefore the discussions change from year to year. The skills are often more semi-independent or independent as well, so while we may get them started, they usually finish on their own - which results in less time on our part. :D So, I would not mind in the least teaching CTC on up back to back, nor LHTH, or even LHFHG. :D

The guides that may be harder to teach back to back (IMO) would be possibly PHFHG, and probably Beyond and Bigger Hearts. These are important, foundational teaching years, and those guides rightly recognize this by having us teaching more. The skills are incredibly important, and helping our dc to build a strong foundation in them is integral to the success for rest of the years to come. These are the years we are teaching our dc how to read, how to write, how to have strong basic math skills, how to begin to follow directions, how to learn to listen attentively, how to have good study habits, how to begin to dig deeper in the Bible, how to begin to develop a real relationship with the Lord, and not to mention... how to gather work supplies, how to do neat work (i.e. putting together a notebooking or art assignment that looks balanced), where to hand in their work, how to clean up their work area, and the list could go on... and on... and on. These years are about so much more than just working through school subjects - if a parent were to really sit down and ponder even just one of the things I listed above (i.e. teaching dc how to read :shock: ) - it becomes obvious these years firmly place responsibility upon our shoulders as teachers... again rightly so. :wink: What's more - these important years of learning come at a time when our dc are often quite immature. As we are trying to teach them well and show them the importance of learning, they are thinking day after day filled with simply all play and no work sounds quite fun. (Blessedly, HOD makes learning fun, so this battle is minimized with Carrie's excellent writing. :D )

So, these younger years are crucial, and our teaching needs to be focused, consistent, and complete. Random teaching, hit and miss work on skills, accepting incomplete work, letting poor work habits slide - there is no room for these things in these years - because habits are forming ALL of the time, and whether they are good habits or bad habits has a BIG impact on the years to come. :shock: These years make a permanent impression on our dc - they shape their thoughts of homeschooling - what it is, how it will be done, what they are responsible for, what their role is, what our role is as their teacher. If they don't understand how important school is, they may never get it, and we may spend the rest of our teaching years battling that belief that school is not that important and that work can just as easily be skipped as completed. On the other hand, if they understand school is extremely important, the work they are doing is full of purpose and can be very fulfilling, the work habits they make have lifelong impact and can help them in so many good ways, the Godly studies have eternal consequences and a relationship with the Lord takes precedence over all - then they will take school seriously - they will take us seriously - they will take their faith seriously, and instead of finding opposition in our dc, we find an ally that readily and (on most days) cheerfully joins us in this homeschooling journey, day to day, year to year. :D

I know this sounds like I'm putting too much emphasis on these years, but all I can tell you is me putting my time in these years is turning out dc who partner with me in learning - not perfect dc, but willing dc, and that is an incredible blessing. :D

So, if a mama has only a few dc, teaching guides back to back is probably not a big deal other than personal preference. :wink: If a mama has many dc, she could spread herself too thin and not be as ready for the challenge of back to back important teaching years (I would place myself in this category :wink: ). I'm not sure where you fall, but I think I'd consider doing Bigger Hearts with extensions with your oldest, and either LHFHG with 1st grade options with your younger, or half-speed Beyond with your younger. If you did half-speed Beyond, your teaching would be nicely balanced between Beyond and Bigger Hearts, and the following year, as you finished the second half of Beyond, your older would be in PHFHG, thus giving you a year in between guides from then on out. LHFHG is an excellent program too, so that could be an option too. HTH as you ponder your goals! :D :D :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

mskogen
Posts: 336
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Location: Canehill, AR

Re: Struggling with separating the kids

Post by mskogen » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:17 pm

Once again Julie very well said. :wink:
I separated by 2 oldest sons a little over a year ago. I realized the importance of placing them in the guide for them, not trying to keep them together. I was halfway through Bigger when I realized. Those first few weeks were hard. My oldest went full pace and my second went half pace (we did the 3 R's daily). I was reading the same thing twice within a couple of weeks. They are both in Preparing now. However my oldest is in Unit 30 and my second is in Unit 5. I will always be doing back to back guides with them. But I would not change a single thing. Yes it does take some time on my part but the rewards are worth every second. My second son has grown sooooo much since the spilt. :lol: that sounds funny. I was not sure how I would feel about doing the same thing so close together but it has not been a problem. I actually am enjoying it. My sons are only 18 months apart but their personalitlies are very different. Therefore the discussions are different, even when discussing history. They see different aspects as interesting. I have learned alot about both of my boys since the "split". I am looking forward to the next 2 times I teaching the different manuals as I know the experience will be different with my other children.
All this said to say if you really feel like separating your children is what is best, I say Go For It! I know personally it has been one of the best decisions I have made for our family. Life is calmer and I am not as stressed out. Go figure. My time is more specific. When I am ready for you then you need to be ready for momma. Hope this helps. Prayers for you in this decision time.
Blessings,
Michelle

Wife to dh since 2000
ds 15 years old, World History
ds 14 years old, World History
ds 11 years old, RTR
dd 9 years old, Preparing
Enjoyed LHTH, LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, RTR, Rev2Rev, MTMM, WG, enjoying WH

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