OT...grammar question

[cirons]

Hello ladies,

I have a query....In R&S 3 which I am doing with my dd9, it teaches her to use commas in a list situation in a sentence where the only word in the list that does NOT have a comma is the last word eg. I need to buy bananas, apples, and mandarins at the shop today.
The way I learned and every book I read does it the following way: I need to buy bananas, apples and mandarins at the shop today.
That is, there is NO COMMA BETWEEN THE LAST 2 ON THE LIST. There is no comma before the and. I would not put the comma after the apples. Do I make sense? Does anyone else agree? We get stuck on it every time we do it because everywhere my daughter reads, she finds a list written my way, but then R&S teachers her to put a comma there. She gets quite confused, as do I. What have other people done?

[pjdobro]

I was taught the R&S way when I was in school that a comma goes after every word in the list including the one before the "and". I have read in recent years that the last comma is considered optional. Here is an interesting article about grammar rules: http://grammar.about.com/od/punctuation ... trules.htm It mentions how many grammar rules aren't hard and fast and do vary from continent to continent. It could be since you are in Australia, it is more common not to use that last comma. Most of the time I see the last comma in the list. I think either way is considered correct, and it probably matters more where you are as to which way is common.

[Mom2Monkeys]

To me, with the way I was taught, if you don't put the comma then you are grouping those two items "as one"....so, let me think...

I need to buy apples and bananas, peas and corn, and cereal. (probably totally grammatically wrong, but to stress my grouping idea here... )
I need to buy apples, bananas, peas, corn, and cereal.
I need to buy apples, bananas, pease, corn and cereal.

So in my head, without the comma, it's a grouped or paired item. Does that make sense? You can see in my samples how I was taught. Weird maybe. LOL But the last sentence doesn't use the comma before "and" and totally seems weird to me, like those two things don't belong together. Ignore me if this just looks and sounds crazy. Crazy night here!

[pjdobro]

I found more info at this website: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

Use a comma to separate the elements in a series (three or more things), including the last two. "He hit the ball, dropped the bat, and ran to first base." You may have learned that the comma before the "and" is unnecessary, which is fine if you're in control of things. However, there are situations in which, if you don't use this comma (especially when the list is complex or lengthy), these last two items in the list will try to glom together (like macaroni and cheese). Using a comma between all the items in a series, including the last two, avoids this problem. This last comma—the one between the word "and" and the preceding word—is often called the serial comma or the Oxford comma. In newspaper writing, incidentally, you will seldom find a serial comma, but that is not necessarily a sign that it should be omitted in academic prose.

This is interesting. It sounds like in newspapers, the last comma in a series is often omitted. Hmmm.

[cirons]

Interesting....thanks ladies. Maybe it is a country thing. I have noticed that in most of our math, reading, history books etc lists do NOT include the comma before the and. So everything I see in print backs up my thinking, but correct grammar includes it. I suppose my way of thinking is that when you list 2 things, you do not use a comma, eg. 'I need bread and butter'. So when I add a third item to the list, only then would I need a comma, therefore I only need one comma, ie 'I need apples, bread and butter'. I don't write 'I need bread, and butter' so why would I put a comma before the 'and' in longer lists? Mmmmm, anyway, thanks for the links/quotes. I might look more into it. I think it is confusing for us because everything we read has it one way, but what we are taught is correct is something different.

[Gwenny]

It was taught to me that either way is correct, it is your preference. I think I have a punctuation book called Eats, Shoots and Leaves (I think that's the name, my brain is foggy right now), I'll try to remember to look it up in there.

Nancy