singapore placement for older child/remedial

[Gwenny]

Okay. I have a dilemma. I have a 14 yo adopted daughter who is very behind academically. (she's been here 5 years now, but is having a hard time) She's been doing Math 4 of Teaching Textbooks and doing okay with it, but I know that she doesn't really understand things, can't do the word problems, etc. I just had her take the placement test for Singapore. I started her with the 1A test and she didn't do well. The only problems she could do were the ones that were strictly sentences, like 13+2=15. ALL of the word problems she got wrong. But, for almost all of the word problems she just multiplied the two numbers and got the right answer for the multiplication. Some of them she just added the two numbers (which was not the way to solve the problem) and she got the addition correct as well. The measurement and pattern questions she just left blank. Oh, and the one problem that says, 14=__tens + ___ones, she left that one blank.
What am I supposed to do with this? Help!

Nancy

[raceNzanesmom]

I don't have an answer, but I'll be praying.

[blessedmomof4]

At this point, I would suggest something other than Singapore Math, since she is so much older and the "Singapore way" of thinking for math takes some catching onto. Carrie has previously recommended a program called Math Essentials for catching up in math for older kids. For your daughter, I would possibly start with Book 1 (Grades 4/5) followed by Book 2 (Middle Grades/High School), then the PreAlgebra Concepts book. Each comes with a DVD with a math teacher carefully explaining the lessons, and then the student works on a page from the book. It is inexpensive and the lessons are short. http://www.mathessentials.net/order.html

[my3sons]

Gwenny - Take encouragement from the thought that all of us have things that are more difficult and things that come more naturally to us. Dc that don't excel in math do very well in other areas, that dc who do excel in math don't. Your dd I am sure has many gifts and talents! As far as math though, I would stick with "Teaching Textbooks" as that is going fairly well, and I'd continue to move her along in that. Because she is 14 yo, I think it would be very difficult to go back to the start with Singapore, and also just not worth the "you've got to double-time it" feeling it would give. My dh barely passed math with "D's" in high school. When he got his degree in college in mechanical engineering drafting, he got straight "A's". That kind of math made sense to him because he was drafting and building things. So, just know that whatever your dd's talents are in life, the Lord will equip her to carry them out for His glory - if it's not math - that's okay - she'll just fill a void that math expert couldn't!

In Christ,
Julie

[blessedmomof4]

On second thought, Julie makes a great point. Switching is often not the answer when it comes to math. If your daughter is already doing okay with what you are using now, stick with it. A little steady progress over time is still progress, and if you have that, it IS going well!

[Gwenny]

Thanks girls! I'll keep her where she is and maybe spend a little time working on some things with her as far as the word problem issue. I'm glad you said not to switch, I was dreading the double time thing like you said Julie.

Nancy

[Gwenny]

I'm still thinking about this. I just had her get out her Math 4 TT on the computer and she only has 10 more lessons to go. All of her scores are 95 or 100. Well....we worked on some stuff together the other day, and she doesn't even get place value. She didn't know that the 8 in 85 meant 8 tens. And like I said, her placement test with Singapore shows that she doesn't get any of it. She has no thinking skills, in any area, not just math.
I don't get how you can score so well in a program and not really get it. There is something wrong with that. To me it shows a problem with the program, it's not really teaching them.
It seems to me that I have to go way back with her, and it should be either Singapore or Math Mammoth. We can't just go on or she'll never get it.
Thoughts?

Nancy

[my3sons]

Gwenny,
I can understand what you are saying here. You could definitely do Math Essentials as Lourdes suggested, and that is a good option. Or, you could go back and begin with Singapore 1A/1B. You could do the hands-on activities with her from Beyond, and clip along, doing 2 lessons a day. The hands-on will seem very young, but that's okay, I think it would help her start fresh and better remember what she's learning. Then, when you finish that, you could do 2A/2B along with Bigger Hearts hands-on plans. You could clip along with this 2 lessons a day or so too, I would guess. From that point on, the "A"'s of each set would probably need to be slowed down, as they seem to pack more of a punch right at the onset, but then with the "B's" of each set you could probably clip along more. I am thinking that you could get dd through 6B and then begin Video Text with her. To do this, math would need to be done each and every day 5 days a week, and doubling up when you felt dd was ready to do so. This could possibly be a tentative plan that would flex greatly depending on how things were progressing...

14 yo: 1A/1B, 2A/2B
15 yo: 3A/3B, 4A
16 yo: 4B, 5A/5B
17 yo: 6A/6B, Begin Video text and get as far as able

Keep in mind that no matter what, math is just probably not her thing, so depending on your goals and her goals after high school, you'd want to weigh how much math is really needed. There are many people in this world that did not do well with math that have done extremely well in life / in a field that is not math-related. I hope something here helps! You could always just get started and give it a go to see how it goes!

In Christ,
Julie

[doubleportion]

We started over with Singapore after three other math programs. I am not in your situation in regards to age, but my dd struggled with math. I determined to start at the beginning with Singapore Math with her and she flew through. In one year she caught up to where she was "suppose to be" in her grade. We did encounter bumps in the road and math will probably never be her strong point. But I learned to simply slow down when she hit areas that she just didn't get and really chip away at it until the light came on for her. We also school year round, and I think that has helped the continuity in math for her. Just to agree with Julie, my daughter amazes me in the other things she can do in school. But math is not one of them. Each of us has giftings that are different.

When it all comes down to it, only our Lord who made her and gave her to you knows the best plan for her. I know that He is faithful to reveal His plan and give us peace when we ask Him. Praying that the Lord will show you His plan.

Edie

[lharris]

Hi Nancy,
I found it interesting that she is adding and multiplying correctly, is that right? Just the word problems are throwing her? You might try teaching the strategy of how english translates to math. I know that sounds weird, but formal logic may actually help her here. I can email you more on that if you'd like some good programs. I taught symbolic logic and the story problems may be related to thinking through the wording. If I remember correctly, help her look for clues in the words. the word "and" always mean addition. If they use word "difference", it's subtraction. If they use the word "or" it should be multiplication if my logic memory is working. Math programs sometimes do not teach strategy, however logic does. Here are a few word clues for story problems that I found on a web site.

ADDITION: add (to), sum, plus, more than, increased by
SUBTRACTION: subtract (from), difference, minus, less than, decreased by, how many more?
MULTIPLICATION: multiply, product, times, twice, three (four, five, etc.) times, percent
DIVISION: divide, quotient, share equally

See if that helps!

[doubleportion]

Keep in mind that no matter what, math is just probably not her thing, so depending on your goals and her goals after high school, you'd want to weigh how much math is really needed. There are many people in this world that did not do well with math that have done extremely well in life / in a field that is not math-related. I hope something here helps! You could always just get started and give it a go to see how it goes!

(Waving hand wildly) Me! Me!- I did not do well in math in school, and got into college with a music and academic scholarship. I took one college math class (Elementery Math for Educators- it was teaching Elementary Math ). I came out of college with a BME and with honors. So, yes, it is possible to do many things without doing amazing in math

Edie