Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

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AnaDawson
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:13 pm

Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by AnaDawson » Sat May 22, 2010 3:52 pm

Hello all,

We have had such an awesome year with HOD! We are pretty much done with the school year and are at the point when we have to decide what to do for next year. Like I said before, we have had an amazing time with HOD, especially my 7 yr. old. She started off the year with me reading history and science to her, but toward the end she preferred reading the material herself. This has greatly helped in our scheduling. I had a very workable schedule with my children this year. We began school everyday at 9 and were done by 12. Sometimes the DITHOR had to be done during nap time. During two of the three hours when my older two (7 and 5) were doing school, I had the two little ones (3 and 2) watch some videos and have alone room time for that time. Up until February, I had a live in housekeeper (I live in south Texas) who would take the two little ones to the park for the third hour of school. We no longer have her help and do not foresee having another live-in. After February the third hour was taken up by 30 minutes of coloring or quiet activity at table and the last 30minutes we just survived with a lot of interruptions and shhhhh's. We would have lunch at noon and then it was time for naps for the little ones from 1:30 to 3:30. At 3:30 when the toddlers got up it was time to start dinner and take the older two to extracurricular activities. After dinner, it is time for baths and bed at 7:30 or 8:00. You can imagine how I feel after spending what it seems like the whole year with my older two and completely neglecting my two little ones. I can't do this to the little ones anymore! There has to be a better way. When they are not around it is so much easier to teach and I am not in the least bit rude to anyone. When they are around, they want mama (understandably so), and I can no longer teach the older two with patience. It has gotten so bad that we have purchased ABEKA'S video curriculum so I can spend time with the two little ones. We have not received it in the mail and so we have a chance to return it for a full refund for up until thirty days after we receive it. It grieves me that we have gotten to the point where we feel like we need a video curriculum. I love HOD. I feel that this curriculum is a perfect fit for us. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can work this out? My husband Mark, has told me he cannot see me struggling the way he did with the children and allow it to continue. He also says he has noticed my lack of not spending time with the little ones. I know I cannot possibly ask him to do more for me. He does so much more than I expect of anyone. He comes home for lunch almost everyday so I can run errands, when he gets home in the evening he pretty much takes over with the kids. He cleans up kitchen, helps with the children's baths and bed time. Any ideas? :|
Blessings,

Ana Dawson

Mommy to:
Ava 7 BHFHG
Walker 5 LHFHG
Reed 3
Ella 1

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Sat May 22, 2010 4:33 pm

I had the same problem, but with no help from dad! He's a full time RN student and rarely here. To fix it, I started our school day earlier, added in a 30min. morning walk and some time on the Wii for "P.E." :wink: I read to all the kids at breakfast-- bigger's history and hymn and LHFHG's storytime and scripture song. Then Wii, then the biggest thing I did that helped was starting LHTH with my toddler. He feels so special!! We get about half an hour of 1-on-1 while the 2 big kids play Wii and baby watches them be goofballs on it. LOL

Breakfast is usually by 7:30, and we get some of school done then.My Wii Fit turn is at 8. LHTH is at 8:30, walk is at 10 or 10:30, lunch about 1 and we're done.
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

daybreaking
Posts: 280
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by daybreaking » Sat May 22, 2010 4:35 pm

I only have a 7 year old and a 3 year old, but what has helped me tremendously is using a schedule. Basically, I alternate between the two children. For example, my DD will have quiet playtime while I do a phonics lesson with DS. Then, we'll switch and DS will work independently in his phonics workbook while I do activities with DD. After that, we have a joint session, where they have a snack while I read aloud, followed by doing some of the HOD gross motor activities (from LHTH, LHFHG or BLHFHG). In our home, both children love to join in on the other's gross motor activities, so it works well. Next, we have another block where I start with 1:1 with DS, while DD does coloring, craft books, table activities, etc. and after about 1/2 we switch and DS does some independent work, such as handwriting or his math workbook, and I work 1:1 with DD on some of her HOD activities/reading. It hasn't always been easy getting one child to work quietly while I work 1:1 with the other, but little by little, they're learning. Most of our homeschooling time is alternated like this, though I do utilize my daughter's nap to gain an additional 1 1/2 hours to work with DS. There have been many benefits of our having a schedule, but a few stick out right now. First, my DD is much more likely to "allow" me to work with DS, since she knows she has her own time with me everyday. If for some reason, I get caught up with DS, she'll even remind me, "Craft time, Mommy!" :D Second, I know I am giving my DD the time she needs. Without a schedule, it was too easy to get caught up with DS's schooling and end up scrambling to keep DD occupied. Another option in your schedule could be to have either the 5yo or 7yo play with the 1yo and 3yo, allowing you an uninterrupted 1/2 hour with the other older child. HTH!

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds18 & dd13

birchbark
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Location: NW Wisconsin

Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by birchbark » Sat May 22, 2010 7:38 pm

I think a lot of us who choose to home-educate struggle with this. Can you...

Do one school hour during naptime and spend that morning hour with them instead?
Make some freezer-meals so you can cut down on meal-prep time occasionally?
Include them as you do daily duties? (cooking, folding laundry, etc.)
Occasionally do the curriculum half-speed to have some extra time?
Married to a wonderful man since 1995
DS
DS
DD
DS

HollyS
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by HollyS » Sun May 23, 2010 6:53 am

I have 4 kids too. Here are my thoughts--
--can you spend some time with your little ones through out the morning? I'll spend a few minutes reading my 3yo a book or get her set up with some math manipulatives. She also enjoys her own "schoolwork" at the table...cheap preK workbooks from the dollar store (she just scribbles in them), plain paper or coloring books are all great. All of us spend time playing with the 6mo old. I felt guilty not spending as much time with our youngest, but I've since realized that she gets lots of attention from her brothers and sisters. She seems to enjoy it as much as mommy time. :D I try to keep her close by when we are working on school.

--Would it be possible to take them all outside after lunch (or spend some time with them at the same time). You mentioned running errands at that time, but it seems like you could do this a few days a week anyway. Even 20 minutes or so would be great!

--I personally like to save math, phonics, and language arts to when they aren't as interruptive. Nap time would be great for that. I'm amazed that your toddler is still napping! Mine takes one every few days.

It sounds like you have a great DH! I love my DH greatly, but he helps out very little with the kids...he's more of a playtime daddy. He's gotten a little better about helping with dinner (cooking and dishing up), but I haven't seen him wash dishes in years. :lol:
Last edited by HollyS on Sun May 23, 2010 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Holly, mom to 4
DD 10 and DS 7 -- Bigger
DD 5 -- LHTH
DD 2

Cindie2dds
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Location: Texas

Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by Cindie2dds » Sun May 23, 2010 8:47 am

This is so hard and I only have two! When we did Pre-K with my oldest, my little one was taking a nap. This year Kindergarten has been much harder because she wasn't napping anymore and I didn't want to shoo her away. I've tried to include her as much as possible, but I am so excited to do LHTH with her, for her. Her sister is going to help teach her, both of them are excited, and we are going to work together. Of course, I only have two, but I just wanted to encourage you that you can do this. Kids love to teach, include them in on the little one's lessons, let them teach the littles as much as they can and want to. {hugs} Momma, deep breath.
Wife of 17 years to Gary, mom to girls:
Starting our journey with HOD in August!
Juliette (Jan/04) BLHFHG
Jordan (Jul/06) LHTH

jenntracy
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Location: Florida

Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by jenntracy » Sun May 23, 2010 11:07 am

Hello,

I was doing LHFHG and LHTH. i was able to include my 2yr old in some of LHTH as her big sister did it. i found that if she got attention first, she was much better after that, while doing the readings with big brother for LHFHG. We finshed LHTH already and still working on LHFHG.
I find i also need to give my 5 yr old attention (she can be clingy). So i would try to do something with both the youngers or a little wkbk with the 5yrold and time with toddler before doing something with my eldest.

Sometimes my 4 (now 5 yr old) could play with my now 2yrold, but it took a while to train her to watch out for little sis. Her brother and i would go in his room and shut door and try to get most of the reading stuff done. He gets distracted easily and it goes much faster and he gets more out of it.

If there was anything to do with painting , art, we involve her somehow. Any extra science we do, usually waits til naptime.

I found that "I" can get distracted easily and if i just keep to our schedule we had much more time for play. We aim for starting at 9am, but i could see how starting even a little earlier would help.

Now i have even had to add walking the dog at 6:20am and the dog is much better behaved when he gets his attention (Boxer/Lab mix)!
I have to say, children are like puppies/dogs and i have learned alot by owning pets.

I have felt guilty and try to catch myself if i find myself doing things that can wait.

My husband rarely does dishes and still needs training helping in the evenings. I find it more important to read or do something with my kids than doing dishes (we also have no dishwasher) and the dishes will get done later or a few days later, (scary). But the kids are healthy and in a few years i will have many more hands to help better with chores.
Lots of times my toddler will help me with dinner :).

I have to watch myself with letting them watch too much dvds. Many are educational and they are great when i need to do a few things and keep them out of trouble, but they would sit there all day if i let them.

All this to say, you are not alone. In a few years your kids will be a little older and things will be different.
If you feel in your heart that HOD is what you should be doing , find a way to make it work. Personally, i don't think a video homeschool could ever replace all the great reading and time your children will have with you.
There are times when it may be a good fit for some families. If you have doubt, pray more about it before making your final decision. Be sure it is what the Lord wants for your family. :)

Praying for the best :) The Lord will provide the wisdom if HOD is truly the best for your family

Jenn D.
Mom to 4 Blessings
DS 14.5 yrs World Geography
DD 13 yrs MTMM
DD 10 yrs CTC
DS 7 yrs Bigger

momofgreatones
Posts: 120
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by momofgreatones » Sun May 23, 2010 11:10 am

This is something I struggle with as well with my seven, and I second all the wonderful suggestions from the ladies above also. It seems I am continually working on my schedule to try to make sure everyone has enough time with mom. One thing to keep in mind too, is that it is common to think of the pre-school years as our only time to have our little ones to ourselves, because once they hit kindergarten age, school away from home becomes their time-sucker away from mom. But with homeschooling, we keep our little ones with us and continue to spend our days with them. So each year it is a balance of dividing our time with EACH of our precious children.

This is not to say that we shouldn't worry about spending enough time with our little ones, because I know these baby years are precious and we never get them back. I'm just saying that I feel that it isn't an all-now and get-nothing-later thing with our youngest ones. There are many precious hours of time spent together to be had with our little ones now, as well as waiting for us every coming year. I treasure each hour that I spend with my older dc during the day as well, as they are still my little children and grow up so fast, and I know I would be spending very little time with them if they were away at school. I pray each day that the time with each of my children, from the oldest to the youngest, will be rich and sufficient to the day thereof, as there always feels there isn't enough of me to go around, and the Lord does somehow make it so there is enough of me. Am I making any sense? These have just been my thoughts lately as this is a constant challenge in my life as well.

Pray for inspiration for a solution and follow some of these ladies' wonderful suggestions and you will work it out! If you go to a DVD program for your olders, you may find that after a while the pendulum has swung and you may then be feeling that you aren't spending enough time with the olders! Sometimes balancing things is one of the hardest things in life, but it is worth it! Hang in there mama!
Monique

dd 18 graduated!
dd 16 studying for CLEPs
dd 14 Studying for CLEPs
ds 12 CTC with extensions
ds 10 Bigger Hearts
dd 8 Bigger Hearts
dd 4 Little Hands to Heaven
dd 2 Little Hands to Heaven

my3sons
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by my3sons » Sun May 23, 2010 1:11 pm

Hi Ana - I am so glad to hear you had a great year with HOD! I really want that to continue for you. I can see what you are saying here. You've already gotten some wonderful ideas! I started LHTH with my little one for this very reason - he was not getting my time. That has done wonders for him, and I'm only doing it half-speed! Having a schedule saves me. I think you are just in the position where your schedule has changed. Since you no longer have your live-in housekeeper, you no longer have a schedule for your toddlers. All you have to do is establish a schedule for them, including some time with you, and you will be set. The wonderful thing is you can work on establishing this schedule even while you are not homeschooling. I take the summers to do this. It helps me so much during the school year because my toddler's schedule is already routine. :D

Making blocks of time for things really helps me!!! Having a block of time for me to be with each child, and also having blocks of time for different children to play together has made me be able to homeschool with fewer interruptions and with better focus. Your 2 dc are old enough to take turns playing with your little ones, and you can even assign them a task each time, i.e puzzles on Monday, a special tub of toys on Tuesday, playdough on Wednesday, building with toys on Thursday, exercise video on Friday. While your 7 yo does these tasks with them, you can do your individual language/math instruction with your 5 yo. Then maybe your 5 yo would have a different set of tasks to do with them while you do your individual instruction for your older. Here's a post where I tried to describe the blocks of time and also linked the schedule I used:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5244

I think I'd send back your video curriculum while you can - you can always reorder it if you want. :wink: You can take the next month to just work on establishing a routine for your toddlers. It always helps me to pull out a sheet of paper and write down the things I know the toddler is doing already, i.e. the time he gets up, the time it takes me to get him ready, to eat breakfast, take a nap/quiet time, etc. Then, I can start to fill in things for the toddler that are varied and that help me get time in with him, as well as get time in homeschooling my older dc. I try to then put in 30 minute increments for the toddler to do, with my other kiddos' needs and my needs (i.e. what other things I need to get done) in mind too. I vary the place the toddler is and who is with him. I think if you just take 2-4 weeks focusing on them and making their day flow smoothly, you'll be set to plug your olders into it.

I do think we can make ourselves feel over the top guilty about this. How much time did your mom spend with you or playing with you as a child? Mine spent very little. She was home with me, but she was a farmer's wife, and that meant she was B-U-S-Y. :D My sisters and I just had breakfast with her, played until lunch, had lunch with her, played until supper, had supper with my Dad and Mom, and played some more until bedtime. She basically ate meals with us, was there if we got hurt during the day, read us 2 Bible stories every night, and prayed with us before bedtime. Sundays were are all-together family days, we went to church together, took naps in the afternoon, and we often played card games or had root beer floats at night on Sundays. We did start 4-H together when we were older, and my mom was involved with that. We LOVED our upbringing, and we were and still are incredibly close to our mom (and dad, whom we saw even less)! And what's more, you can imagine how much less time we spent with our mom when we went to public school. Still, we remained a close family with a deep love for one another, and we still maintain that today. :D

So, I want to encourage you that we all feel this way sometimes!!! But, just because you are feeling the need to spend some quality time with your toddlers does not mean you have to buy a video curriculum for your olders. This will only leave you feeling like you are neglecting your olders. You cannot spend all day with your toddlers, and they don't truly even want that. If you just look at meals as together time with them, start 20-30 minutes a day of LHTH with them, add in playtimes where your toddlers play with your olders, take time to read some books to toddlers before nap/quiet time, and read to them before bed, I do think you'd be set. :D You can add in a daily walk too if that's something doable. :) You have just done a great job of homeschooling your dc this year, and now you are just at a point where you need to plan your days for your toddlers. :D

One last thing you may want to consider. Since you enjoyed having your housekeeper and that alleviated stress and made your days go smoothly, why not just get someone to come 1 or 2 afternoons a week? We have a homeschool teenager come 1-2 afternoons a week, and that is when I do all of my errands and make all of my appointments. My dh travels all of the time, and my dc were coming to all of my appointments with me. It made me very stressed. I would go months without getting my hair cut because dc are not allowed. I once went 2 years without getting to my annual "well-woman" appointment :wink: because that one is for sure one that you don't want your sons at. :oops: I had cavities filled with all 3 boys in the room. These things can be done, but just 4 hours a week (or up to 9 hours) of a gal coming to babysit made my life turn around at a small expense really. Anyway, we have now budgeted for that and it has made our days so much better. I know you aren't planning to have a live-in again, but why not try just an afternoon or two of someone coming? I am in prayer for you Ana, as I know this is weighing heavily on your heart. But all is not lost. You managed to have an excellent year overall. Your dc are healthy, they were home with you, all of your school-aged dc received an excellent Christian education. You are doing so much right here!!!
I truly believe if you just take time to only focus on the toddlers that you will be able to have an excellent plan in place. Even doing HOD half-speed would be a happier solution for everyone than a video curriculum. I hope something here has helped, but don't be so hard on yourself. :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USII, MTMM
Wife to Rich for 25 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 20, 17, and 13
Author of Women's Devotional https://www.ebay.com/itm/293355757184
Blogger https://my3sons-julie.blogspot.com/
Sister to Carrie

3sweeties
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by 3sweeties » Sun May 23, 2010 2:11 pm

Wow! There is some incredible advice and encouragement in this thread! It has helped me feel more confident that I too can do this with four kids come August!:D

Ana, I'm praying you find a routine/schedule that works for your family! You are not alone! :D
Jessica~married to my sweetie for 21 years!
[DS17]~U.S. HISTORY 2~2019-20
[DS14]-World Geography~2019-20
[DD12]~ RTR, DITHOR 6-8~2019-20
[DS9]~Bigger~2019-20
Enjoyed LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, RTR, RevtoRev, MTMM, WORLD GEOG, WORLD HIST, US HIST 1~LOVING HOD!

deltagal
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by deltagal » Sun May 23, 2010 2:24 pm

my3sons wrote: I had cavities filled with all 3 boys in the room.

Oh, Julie! Thanks for the chuckle. I can relate SO WELL. And AnaDawson, we all can relate, I second all the great thoughts on this post. I am a big proponent of teaching the olders to work with the youngers, so you can rotate time with the others. Plus, your younger children will get "older" very quickly and this issue will become in hindsight very short lived. For a season I had one of my children rise an hour before the others, so he could do his work without interruption and then he would play with the others later in the day. I can honestly say our schedule has changed every year because we're constantly adjusting things for the season we're in and the needs of the household.
With Joy!
Florence

My blog: http://florencebrooks.com/

Began HOD 1/2009
Currently using: Bigger, RTR, Rev to Rev and MTMM

psreit
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by psreit » Sun May 23, 2010 3:56 pm

I can't relate as far as the schooling, because my 3 bio dc were older when I began hs(3rd, 5th & 7th grades). The youngest was born with spina bifida and intestinal problems. The other two were only 3.7 and 1.7 yrs. old at the time. My dd is cared for at a hospital 3 hours away. So, I ended up being away from the other two quite a bit during the first 2 years of her life. At home she required much care. When I look back, I know I could have balanced my time a little better, and at times even felt guilty or regretted not spending more time with the other two when 3rd dd was born. God has taken care of them through the help of friends and relatives over the years and they have grown to be very (not perfect) but responsible and God-fearing adults. When dd3 was 9 yrs. old, she became very ill and ended up in the hospital (3 hours away) which amounted to a total of about 7 months during the following year. Needless to say, I ended up being away very much from my then 11 and 13 year olds, a very crucial time, especially with my 13 yo. He has graduated from college and anticipates being a pastor someday :)

I said all that to encourage you to just do your best as far as distributing time. You have been given some great advice. Not every day will turn out the way you wish, but teaching them Godly character through HOD will benefit them greatly in the future. My first 3 are grown, so I only have 1 to hs now. There are days when she is very demanding of my time, especially because she doesn't have younger siblings. Sometimes I get stearn with her, because I just would like some time to myself or some time to get other work done. Being a neglected child early in life, sometimes I feel guilty when I tell her she needs to do something by herself (and she will throw a pity party). But, I know that she needs to learn to content herself sometimes, although she hasn't learned it very well, yet. I am counting on HOD to help in building character in her. If you need to schedule time with each one, or even get a sitter for awhile like Julie said, it sure is doable. I encourage you to keep working at it. God will give you the grace and strength you need to get through each day, and when the dc are older and not needing as much of your time, you will be glad that you've had those one-on-one moments to cherish. Believe me, the years go by too fast. God bless!
I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. III John 4
Pam
dh 33 yrs
ds29 church planter in MA
dd27 SAH mom
dd26
dd 12
3 dgs(5,2, & born 6/15) & 2 dgd(3 & born 2/15)

ncmomof5
Posts: 211
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Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by ncmomof5 » Sun May 23, 2010 7:09 pm

I agree with the above posters who suggested you have the older children play with your younger. That is the only way we could have made it through this school year. My 2 yo dd could not be left alone for 5 minutes. :D I would have gotten very little schooling done when she was up, and since we were doing 3 programs, I couldn't get it all in during her naptime in the afternoon (plus, I am a morning person-I need to get most of our school done by lunch).

I also want to tell you that I chose to do Abeka video school with my 2 oldest (who are in the same grade) during my 5th pregnancy. I thought it would make my life easier since I was having a baby in the middle of the year. (I did not know anything about CM or Heart of Dakota at that time. :( ) It was more work than I thought it would be. It seemed that I was always helping them study for a test or quiz or helping them with math or making sure this assignment was done,etc. Abeka video school is very rigorous and demanding, and if you don't have children who can read, study, and learn quickly on their own, you are going to have to spend time helping them.

I understand how you feel. As others said above, we all struggle with this at one time or another. Hang in there, and don't let the guilt weigh you down. The most important thing you can do is pray and seek God for wisdom.
2013 - 2014
15 yo dd -- MTMM
13 yo ds -- MTMM
12 yo ds -- finish PHFHG/CTC
9 yo ds -- finish BLHFHG/BHFHG
5.5 yo dd -- LHFHG

"Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."
Matthew 6:32

AnaDawson
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by AnaDawson » Sun May 23, 2010 9:36 pm

Amazing! God never ceases to amaze me! Thank you all so much for helping me through this. I have gotten so much wonderful advice. I think you all are correct in saying that eventually the pendulum would swing the other way and I would end up feeling guilty over not spending enough time with the older two. I have gotten some really good ideas that I can't wait to implement with my kids: spend time with little ones before school (LHTH), have the older two scheduled to have play time with younger two, wake up earlier ( I can do 30 min.), get a sitter to come help me a few times a week (so I can run errands and yes perhaps even have a hair cut), not expect to spend the full two hours of nap time to do whatever I want (perhaps only take one hour to myself and the other hour to do some school), and go for a walk or our neighborhood park in the morning before school. I can't wait to implement some of these ideas into my day. I am excited to work a new schedule. The problem was that I was expecting to have the same schedule before our circumstances changed. Also, my love language is quality time and not spending a block of time with the little ones was beginning to make me feel awful. I need to prayerfully consider all of this as I make my new schedule. Our God is so faithful and I am so thankful that you are all in my life as an encouragement and a practical help.
Blessings,

Ana Dawson

Mommy to:
Ava 7 BHFHG
Walker 5 LHFHG
Reed 3
Ella 1

my3sons
Posts: 10604
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: Guilt over not spending enough time with little ones!

Post by my3sons » Mon May 24, 2010 8:48 am

deltagal wrote:
my3sons wrote: I had cavities filled with all 3 boys in the room.
Oh, Julie! Thanks for the chuckle. I can relate SO WELL. .
:lol: :lol: :lol: I just had a crown put on. I was so very glad my dc didn't have to watch that. :shock: :lol:
In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USII, MTMM
Wife to Rich for 25 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 20, 17, and 13
Author of Women's Devotional https://www.ebay.com/itm/293355757184
Blogger https://my3sons-julie.blogspot.com/
Sister to Carrie

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