ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

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brokenopen
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ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by brokenopen » Mon May 17, 2010 8:10 pm

My ds6 just finished a year of kindergarten at a small private school. He is proud to say he has graduated to "mommy school" and we will be ordering Beyond for him and his brother (9- will be beefing up math, LA, dithor and poss. science), little sister(4) will be doing LHTH.

Trying to pick his phonics for Beyond, and feel clueless! He reads his Abeka K5 readers VERY WELL. Does he need further phonics, or should I just schedule him as an emerging reader?

SOOO excited to find HOD and the boards here, have been pulling things together on my own for my older for a while, and have just not had any peace at all until settling on the curriculums here. Can't tell you how grateful to God I am for that already, without having even completed my order!!

Thank you....Alecia
Mom to 4
DS11 Preparing
DS8 Bigger Hearts
DD6 Little Hearts
DD1

GinainMD
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by GinainMD » Mon May 17, 2010 8:18 pm

Hello and Welcome!
Gina
married to dh 2000
dd 12/01 Bigger
dd 08/03 Bigger
dd 03/07 LHTH
dd 06/08 LHTH

pjdobro
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by pjdobro » Mon May 17, 2010 8:37 pm

My dc read the Abeka readers before doing the emerging readers. I'm thinking you might be able to step right into the emerging readers from there. I'm not familiar enough with the Abeka phonics program to know what they cover in the whole scope though. I just had the readers and not the whole program. Do you think he knows his phonics rules well and could he read a book like Frog and Toad easily enough? If so I would say go ahead and start out with the emerging readers.
Patty in NC

b/g twins '02 Rev2Rev 2014/15
previously enjoyed LHFHG, BLHFHG, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, RTR
******
Nisi Dominus Frusta (Without God, frustration)
Unless the LORD builds the house, its builders labor in vain. Psalm 127:1

brokenopen
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by brokenopen » Tue May 18, 2010 9:12 am

Thank you, Gina!

Patty, I checked ABEKA's online scope and sequence, and it looks like they cover MOST phonics in K5, but they still learn a few of the harder special sounds in 1st. He is a very strong reader for 6, with only 4 months of reading under his belt. I think I'll pop by the library this week and try him on a frog and toad book like you suggested, and go from there... He graduated from his K program last friday night, and is begging to start!!

thank you!
Alecia
Mom to 4
DS11 Preparing
DS8 Bigger Hearts
DD6 Little Hearts
DD1

my3sons
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by my3sons » Wed May 19, 2010 1:54 pm

You've already gotten wonderful advice here, so I'll just second that if your ds is ready to read a "Frog and Toad' type book quite smoothly and easily, and has completed learning all of his sounds, he's ready to start the ERS. If you're not sure he's completed all his phonics and would like to have some along with the ERS, you can just have him do a few of the early Explode the Code books, maybe like Levels 1-2-3. :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

lovedtodeath
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by lovedtodeath » Wed May 19, 2010 2:08 pm

Don't you all finish phonics? My DD could read Frog and Toad when she was 5. But now she is needing more phonics in order to get over the 5th grade reading level hump. Webster's Speller goes up to a 12th grade reading level. The King's James version is somewhere between the two (9th I think).
Carmen, teaching Jake 3 and Emily 8
Third grade coming up:
HOD Bigger, Phonics Road 2, Math Mammoth.
http://www.thephonicspage.org/index.html

my3sons
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by my3sons » Wed May 19, 2010 3:42 pm

The length of time you teach phonics depends on your educational philosophy, and as HOD writes their guides so that any phonics program and any reading program can be used with it, you can certainly choose whatever fits your philosophy. :D That being said, I'm currently enjoying reading Charlotte Mason's series of six volumes. Here are some excerpts from Volume 1 that pertain to the topic of phonics and reading:

First of all, keep in mind that reading is neither a science nor an art. Even if it were, the teacher would still need to put the child's interests first. But it's not. Learning to read is nothing more than figuring out, however we can, the arbitrary symbols for objects and ideas. There is no one 'right way', and no necessary sequence of steps. There is no beginning, middle, or end. The arbitrary symbols we must know so we can read aren't letters. They're "words". To illustrate, consider how the letter 'o' sounds different in various words just in the previous sentence: for, symbols, know, order, to, not, words. Memorizing each variation is a quaint (yet useless!) study for a philologist, but it's dreary work and inappropriate for a child. We must admit that the letters that compose English words are an interesting study for language experts, and their study may result in new understanding in the way we educate. But for now, letters don't always sound like they look, so teaching to read only by sounding out letters will mean a lot of extra work for the child, and lots of confusion because of the irregularities of spelling. It would be a challenge to try to get every letter to follow the rules.

What is our suggestion in teaching a child to read? (a) He should know maybe a thousand words by sight. (b) He will be able to build on the words he know and recognize more words. By learning ten new words a day, he'll be reading to some extent in twenty weeks, and he won't be limited by the size of the word. The second less important of our task is teaching the child the sounds of the letters and helping him blend letter combinations.

The child needs some kind of a bridge between the things that interest him, and the arbitrary symbols that he needs to know.


I could continue typing CM's words here, but the book itself is so wonderful to have that if you are interested it is well worth owning. CM's comments about reading for older dc coincide very nicely with DITHOR. So, HOD carries several phonics programs, the ERS to act as a bridge, and DITHOR. This combined with the LA Charlotte Mason skills included in HOD along with R & S English rounds out the program. Of course there is no purpose in deliberating what is right or what is wrong here, as a person's individual philosophy of reading will dictate what they choose to do for reading instruction. Blessedly, HOD offers their CM-based option, but also makes sure you can do your own if your philosophy differs. :D For me, my ds is in fifth grade and is thriving with the HOD path of reading instruction. He loves reading, reads extremely well, comprehends very well, and I'm happy with those results. :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

Carrie
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by Carrie » Wed May 19, 2010 5:20 pm

Alecia,

Since phonics programs vary widely in how long they take to cover the needed phonics sounds (and also vary in how many of the sounds they cover), it varies from program to program at what point kiddos finish phonics instruction. After the sounds, blends, diagraphs, etc. have been introduced and are able to be read, the "phonics" instruction shifts to being more spelling instruction (or phonics for the purpose of correct spelling). :D

As far as ABeka is concerned, their phonics program stretches over the first two years of schooling. So, by the end of K phonics, you are about half-way to two-thirds of the way through the needed phonics instruction. To close out that remaining gap, you will either need to add Explode the Code books, as already suggested, or take your child through one of our other suggested phonics programs such as Reading Made Easy or The Reading Lesson. Either one will work well to close that remaining gap. You'll likely move very quickly through the parts your child knows, and then will slow down to normal pacing when reaching the part that is new. :D

Even if your child reads fairly well and early, if you don't "finish out" a general amount of phonics instruction, the gap will often show itself around third grade. This is the time that the child's word bank of "memorized words" is usually filled to the maximum and the readings are now requiring the child to phonetically sound words out. It's best to make sure you've covered what's needed early on, so you never get to that point. :D

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Carrie

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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Wed May 19, 2010 8:41 pm

Carrie wrote:
Even if your child reads fairly well and early, if you don't "finish out" a general amount of phonics instruction, the gap will often show itself around third grade. This is the time that the child's word bank of "memorized words" is usually filled to the maximum and the readings are now requiring the child to phonetically sound words out. It's best to make sure you've covered what's needed early on, so you never get to that point. :D

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Carrie
And not to hijack a thread, but what do you do when this actually happens? My 3rd grader is in this now. Natural reader, never completed phonics, can sound out words, but is getting to words that are "irregular" and more difficult. (like for "scene", she'll say "skene" both in reading and every day conversation-- I think she's very visual and is "seeing" the word as she speaks). She reads often and very well but may have hit a wall (does well with the 4/5 DITHOR books).
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

lovedtodeath
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by lovedtodeath » Wed May 19, 2010 8:46 pm

Tamara, I am sorry if you meant for only Carrie to answer. Scene follows the rule as stated in The Phonics Road: "C before e, i, or y always says /S/.

These links can help. They have to do with tutoring phonics in people who are already reading.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phon ... onics.html

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%2 ... links.html

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Read ... tutor.html
Last edited by lovedtodeath on Thu May 20, 2010 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Carmen, teaching Jake 3 and Emily 8
Third grade coming up:
HOD Bigger, Phonics Road 2, Math Mammoth.
http://www.thephonicspage.org/index.html

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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by my3sons » Thu May 20, 2010 8:47 am

I agree that a solid 1-3 years of phonics instruction is important (the length of time depending on the child) to lay the foundation for reading. I know Carrie will respond when she is able, but I think a trip through "The Reading Lesson" or "Reading Made Easy" would be beneficial. It would seem easy for your dd at first, and she would kite along, but then you'd come to some portions that were harder. You could possibly just start in the middle, but I think just for peace of mind knowing you'd been through a complete phonics program with her, I'd do the entire thing from start to finish. Otherwise, if this seems too much, you could just try "Explode the Code" books to fill any gaps. :wink: I'm sure Carrie will answer too though! :)

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by pamh » Thu May 20, 2010 9:34 pm

Abekas phonics starts in K and ends at the end of 2nd grade. So if the school gave you your dc Handbook for Reading (which is used from K thru 2nd), it will have all the phonics charts in the back. Use that book and the charts as a review when your daughter is ready for the emerging readers. I really enjoy Abekas phonics readers because they keep going over special sounds and review, review, review which my son needs who is not all by any means a natural reader.

Pam

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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by Carrie » Fri May 21, 2010 3:10 pm

Mom2Monkeys,

Since your daughter is a third grader, depending on whether she's beyond the reading level within a regular phonics program (like the two we carry), it can get to be a bit tricky to finish out phonics later with an older child. For an older reader who reads well overall, but still needs some basic phonics instruction alongside the reading, I'd likely lean toward Phonics Pathways (at a pace of a page or two a day, starting in the middle of the book or at whatever point you see your child needs instruction). :D

Another thing to ponder would be whether it is partly an eye-tracking issue along with a phonics issue. If so, you may need to utilize the Phonics Pyramid book instead. Linked below:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2768

Blessings,
Carrie

brokenopen
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by brokenopen » Fri May 21, 2010 8:42 pm

Praying about it, and so far am thinking that I'll purchase Reading Made Easy and the accompanying CD workbooks... Ms ds6 can get review and the rest of his phonics, and I'll already have it for my dd4 when she is ready! Thank you all so much, and I will go back and reread that portion of CM's vol 1!!

In His service,
Alecia
Mom to 4
DS11 Preparing
DS8 Bigger Hearts
DD6 Little Hearts
DD1

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: ds6 just finished K5 abeka phonics - what next?

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Sat May 22, 2010 11:01 am

Carrie wrote:Mom2Monkeys,

Since your daughter is a third grader, depending on whether she's beyond the reading level within a regular phonics program (like the two we carry), it can get to be a bit tricky to finish out phonics later with an older child. For an older reader who reads well overall, but still needs some basic phonics instruction alongside the reading, I'd likely lean toward Phonics Pathways (at a pace of a page or two a day, starting in the middle of the book or at whatever point you see your child needs instruction). :D

Another thing to ponder would be whether it is partly an eye-tracking issue along with a phonics issue. If so, you may need to utilize the Phonics Pyramid book instead. Linked below:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2768

Blessings,
Carrie
Thanks Carrie! I have the RME book and worksheets, the ebook of TRL, and I own both Phonics Pathways and Reading Pathways (updated edition of Phonics Pyramid)...Yep, that's the curriculum junkie in me :wink: She's past the regular phonics...I think. Hard to know since she reads rather phonetically, but we never did phonics lessons past MFW K's 6th week. She just already knew it and jumped into Frog and Toad type books immediately as an almost 5yo. I don't think it's eye tracking, but more of an advanced phoincs issue. I'll look deeper into Phonics and Reading Pathways and consider doing that in place of DITHOR at this point.
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

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