Desperate for views on learning diacritical symbols

[annaz]

I learned these. It helps to know how to pronounce words that you don't know when you look them up in the dictionary.

I did not use HOD prior to Beyond so I don't know if any of HOD's phonics recommendations got into this. I'm using CLE LA which of course is heavy on these symbols. But they're odd. R&S's symbols were (IMO) a little more "normal". For example: CLE's uses double dots above the a for the short o sound instead of a breve (what I call a smile) over the o. I learned to use the breve for short o. Another example would be the word "enjoy". CLE is using a breve over the i... - n- j- o (with a dot over)- i with a breve over it. Whereas my dictionary just shows the pronunciation: "e-n-j-oi. Now that makes sense! So there are many oddities with CLE's symbols. They're heavy on "dots and double dots" instead of using breves or macrons. I know this may be foreign to some.

So I wrestle with this...skipping or continuing these symbols. I know it's seems easy to just say skip it, but it's so woven into CLE. CLE is so good otherwise. When it is enough? Just looking for thoughts on this.

[sharonb]

I'm interested in opinions on this too. We started with R&S, and when I was considering switching programs, I was surprised to see that CLE's markings are different. I thought it was a standard system, but I guess not! I looked into other programs too, but many do not use the markings at all (for example, McRuffy, from what I've heard). I wanted phonics for Kindergarten since R&S doesn't start it until 1st, so we are using ETC just for K, just to get the Kindergartener reading a little bit.

[annaz]

Yeah....programs don't use them. I can't imagine getting to college or in my 40's and wondering what this means in a dictionary. LOL!
Anyway, with Julie or Carrie being a teacher, I'd be interested to know their thoughts on these and their useage.

[water2wine]

No expert at all on this but we do use CLE LA. I agree it gets to be a bit much. That is part of the reason why we only use CLE half time. I find something really odd about it. While it absolutely freaks me out a bit with all the symbols even my dd with CP can get them and it really is not a huge deal to my kids. I like the formal grammar of CLE and the ease of use. My kids seem to retain stuff but I only use it half the year. I know that is a very strange answer but that is what we do. What we use the rest of the year is CQLA. I find the two together is the perfect mix for us. We do a booklet of CLE then a unit of CQLA and repeat type thing. And I do not always call them by the name the proper name CLE does. I call them by the sound they make. Just works better for us.

I am really interested to hear what Julie and Carrie say about the symbols though.

[annaz]

No expert at all on this but we do use CLE LA. I agree it gets to be a bit much. That is part of the reason why we only use CLE half time. I find something really odd about it. While it absolutely freaks me out a bit with all the symbols even my dd with CP can get them and it really is not a huge deal to my kids. I like the formal grammar of CLE and the ease of use. My kids seem to retain stuff but I only use it half the year. I know that is a very strange answer but that is what we do. What we use the rest of the year is CQLA. I find the two together is the perfect mix for us. We do a booklet of CLE then a unit of CQLA and repeat type thing. And I do not always call them by the name the proper name CLE does. I call them by the sound they make. Just works better for us.

I am really interested to hear what Julie and Carrie say about the symbols though.

Water2wine, do you skip it? CLE is very intense...."odd" as you say. I would have stuck with R&S Phonics then LA, but we're doing CLE Reading which I find better than R&S Reading and it was easier to use the same program as they worked off each other.

[water2wine]

I usually do not skip it unless I feel like it is way over the top out there. I just say mark it with the short vowel sound or the long vowel sound and sometimes if the symbols get too weird I get simpler. You know what one sound do the two consonants or vowels make together type thing. I am not bound by what it says in the workbook. It's a tool. I think it is good for them to know the sounds you know ou says owe type thing and long short etc. Sometimes if they are having mark things that are too out there I substitute and say don't do what they say just mark the vowel sounds. It's easy to teach and it works so we like it but we modify that part sometimes. Does that make sense? I think the point in my mind is to know what sounds letter pattern make and to be able to read a dictionary is good too but as you say the two do not necessarily connect. I teach them that while they look up vocabulary words in HOD.

But I am openly confessing that LA is not my thing. So take my advice with that in mind. I think Julie or Carrie will have the best answers.

[8arrows]

This is why I have not used CLE language and / R & S reading at the lower levels. Using the key in the dictionary is easily taught when the child is a little older.
I am sure that is part of why the HOD guides have children looking up words in the dictionary. It is very important to be able to use the marks to figure out science terms in older children's textbooks. However, I think at the younger levels all the markings can become overwhelming. Others are free to disagree.