How can I use 1 program with many children?

[MommyInTraining]

Hi,

I wanted to share our experience in hopes that someone could offer me some advice.

I started using Little Hands with my 3 and 5 year olds and we were enjoying it. I then added in Little Hearts for my (same) 5 year old and 7 year old. I also added in Bigger Hearts for my 9 year old. I hated the feeling I had of running around trying to cover 3 different manuals with 4 children (plus a baby in the mix). I decided to just drop it all and look for something else. Someone suggested to me to just use Beyond with all of them, but I never got around to doing that (Hi Alison ). I have gotten rid of Bigger and am in the process of trying to get rid of Little Hearts. I am hanging on to Little Hands for now...it is such a sweet program . I really wanted something that I could use for all of the school aged children (10, soon to be 6, and soon to be and I wanted a program that I could stick with through the years. I was very interested in SOW (Student of the Word) and have the guides coming to me soon, but I have been told they are weak in science and history, so I am planning to probably just use them for Bible mostly. I have looked into MFW and WP, but there are issues I have with both of those too. I don't even think TOG should be a consideration at this point. So, I keep toying with the idea of HOD. There are aspects of HOD that I love, but what I don't love is that, with a large age span, combining is not a plus option. I could do Beyond, but would that now be below my 10 yo's level (she will be 11 in Jan.-I am keeping her in 4th next year)? And then what about next year and the year after that? I have to say that I didn't really care too much for Bigger Hearts, so I don't like the prospect of doing it later. I do like what I see in Preparing and HHTT, but that would just be over my younger childrens' heads, wouldn't it? I want to have a program that fits everyone, but I don't want to feel like I am skipping all over the place in history and science to make that happen. So, what I really want is a program that will keep us all TOGETHER, but is that possible with HOD over the long haul?

I hope I haven't offended anyone or said anything inappropriate. I am just truly seeking some guidance on this issue because I need to make peace with it and move on.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your heartfelt responses!

Blessings,

Terri in WA

[Mumkins]

Well, if you really wanted HOD to work out, maybe you could just do Beyond and Preparing in the fall. IKWYM about combining. I really wish I could combine all four in 1 program. Right now I'd be happy with 2 even. But my youngest are two and a half years apart, but 3 school years. Even if I did combine them, the baby is only 1 this year and my DD will 4 and is loving LHTH and ready to start LHFHG when we finish, not wait for the baby for a few years.

I'm not familar with a program that can include a very wide range of children. Perhaps someone else can help there. Having a big family is a lot of work and one program would surely simplify it alot so I totaly understand your feelings.

[Jessi]

sent you an IM

[netpea]

I understand your frustration. I only have 2 kids and I've been running 2 programs. It works but our day goes longer than it would if we were combined. I think maybe you could make Beyond work for your family if you added to it for the 11 year old. But it might be difficult to do if you don't enjoy "tweaking". Some things like grammar and math are easy because you simply have the 11 working in his own level books. But you would need to add some writing assignments and add history readings. Perhaps you could get some books on your child's level to read independently and then write an esay about them? If you really want to know how to make this work, you might PM mamamary and ask her how she does it.

[angela&4boys]

Another thought might be to combine just the Learning Through History side while seperating the Learning the Basics as needed. This is what we plan to do starting in late summer.

Our 9yo will do BHFHG in it's entirety, while our 11yo (almost 12yo) will join us for Bible and history (reading additional history independently at his level) and do the Learning the Basics only from HFHTT:CTC. (This will be mostly independent which is something I am thrilled that Carrie recognizes the need for!) They have a very active 2yo brother and I needed to make sure there was time in the day for one-on-one with him. I certainly can't compare to all your little ones, but I know God will make sure you are able to teach them because he's laid that on your heart.

I truly felt lead to HOD, but struggled to find a fit for my guys for a time. I had to think outside the box a little and with the help of the ladies here and a lot of prayer, I have a plan and a peace. I recognize you from the WTM Boards and know that you've vigilantly researched the possibilities. I'll pray that you find the right fit and a peace in your heart for you and your littles that will ultimately give all the glory to Him.

Warmly ,

[my3sons]

Terri - Larger families are a blessing from God, and along with all of that being blessed does come a big responsibility - and you are obviously feeling that now. So, first, let me say that I have prayed for you about this, and I remember also praying for you about this when I read your posts on the WTM awhile back. I know you've been trying a lot of different things, and having a hard time getting school done - which is completely understandable - you are 1 busy mom. So, prayer will continue to be an important support system for you (and for all of us as we all need Him every day), for you to have clarity and peace about your decision to homeschool a larger family. I do think God can provide the strength necessary for you to continue to take on this task, especially if you feel He has called you to do this - which I'm sure you do.

I have a sibling with 7 dc who homeschooled her 3 olders through middle school, and is still homeschooling her 4 younger dc. She and I have had many heartfelt conversations about homeschooling. She is now using HOD with her younger dc at home, and really enjoying it - but her older dc were not able to use HOD because it was not written yet. She used everything under the sun - and I mean EVERYTHING - prior to HOD. Her homeschool shelf could have rivaled a homeschool book fair's selection of books! What she found is no surprise - a very large age range makes combining for everything pretty much impossible - especially in LA and math. These last few years she has separated some of her dc using HOD and has been very happy with that, after all of her many years of trying to combine for everything and constantly feeling guilty that someone was being challenged too much, and someone not enough, she's found a nice balance of having 2 pairs of dc to combine in different programs now.

The fact is, it truly is impossible to combine dc that are many years apart in LA and math skills and adequately be meeting their needs. When you have one child that doesn't know letters yet and another one reading long chapter books, for example, it makes no sense to combine them in reading instruction. However, HOD's DITHOR manages to combine dc ages 7-15, and do it well. I've actually used DITHOR with all of those age ranges at once and felt it met the dc's needs beautifully because it allows them to read books on their own levels, and has some instruction days together and some separated out to match their reading stages - all in one book. So, my first gem of advice would be to combine your dc in DITHOR as soon as they're ready, so that eventually you can combine them all in it for their reading instruction down the road.

For other LA skills, such as writing and grammar, it just is necessary to separate out dc, though it is possible to do it in pairs. Right now, it looks like you have about a 7 year age span between your youngest and oldest, I think? Some separation will just be necessary no matter what curriculum you use. HOD's younger guides have more opportunities to customize than I've ever seen anywhere else - several different spelling, science, reading levels, math levels, read-aloud choices, etc. And the older guides just keep widening that ability to customize! With BHFHG, the opportunities to customize LA and Math grow even more, and it just keeps getting better - 3 levels of dictation, multiple sets of storytime books which can be interchanged among any of the guides, multiple levels of math and grammar, provided copywork that can be done according to level -there just are a lot of opportunities there to customize for dc in all different stages of LA development in a very easy way. So, my second piece of advice, would be to utilize the right hand sides of whatever HOD guides fit your dc's individual language needs. We'd all be more than willing to help you figure this out on the HOD board here if you'd like to share more about your dc's individual needs there after checking out the placement chart. Also, one other easy time-saving thing you can do, is choose 1 Storytime to do for read-alouds with your dc.

So now, ahhhhhh, we have come to the "dear friend" of homeschool moms of larger families everywhere - the ability to combine in the areas of history, science, Bible, music, poetry, read-alouds, art projects, timelines, geography, activities, notebooking, etc.! And you ask, what program could possibly do all of that for me?!? HOD does this all in the left side of their guides - Learning Through History. Starting with BHFHG, there is an age range of 7-11 year old dc (and many moms stretch that to fit even wider ages, and just customize the LA and math by using the right side of HOD's guides as necessary). So, this is the area you can really get the most bang for your time with your dc! Now, I have a question for you - what ages would you like to combine for these areas? That will help all of us sort through which guide should be your "core". It will also help if you can take a trip to the placement chart and share a bit about those dc's reading, writing, math placements. Like, where would each of them place if you look at them separately in HOD programs? Then, from that information, we can help you choose the best core HOD program for combining. I'd be glad to help you with this!
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

Once you begin the older HOD programs, like BHFHG, it really helps everything go smoothly to do the guides consistently, on a daily basis. I know that's been a struggle from reading your other posts, so I just want to encourage you that whatever core HOD guide you would choose for the bulk of your dc, once you really get into it and do it consistently as it is written, you will really begin to reap the benefits of that routine. I know it took us a good month to get into the rhythm of BHFHG, and then from that point on, the year was full of great learning in stream-lined time because each day of the plans is so balanced time-wise and activity-wise from the day-to-day. You just had a little one not that long ago, and that always takes some adjusting - especially as we get older! (I know I sure had a harder time bouncing back this last go-around than I did at first) ! I just want to encourage you that if you can get into a consistent way of doing things, I know things will go well for you and your dc. I deeply want for you to be able to homeschool happily for the long-term. I truly believe your best shot at doing that will be to use HOD. There are so many moms that have first come to the HOD board here feeling overwhelmed and unsure how to proceed with homeschooling a large family - and they have found peace and joy homeschooling at last by using HOD. I want that for you too, Terri!

If you could please check out the placement chart, and share about your dc's 3 R's, and then also if you could please share how many of them you'd like to combine in an HOD core right now, that would be super! Then I will surely get back to you (and I know others will too). Take heart, Terri - this can be done! I always think "if Carrie can homeschool 4 dc and write these guides, then anyone can homeschool" - even me and you! You've taken on a big task homeschooling a large family, but God can equip you to do this, and it can be a joy in your life once again.

In Christ ,
Julie

[Carrie]

Terri,

We all have years like the one you are describing, where we trying to find our groove, so you are not alone. It sounds like you have many little ones running around and that you also added new baby to the mix. It also sounds like you have spent much of the year trying to weigh what your philosophy is and trying to figure out whether to combine or not to combine your kiddos. From the various curriculum options you listed, I'm also thinking you most likely spent much of your time researching curriculum trying to find the perfect fit this year.

I have gone down the path that are sharing about in your post above. I am a curriculum researcher to the hilt and will tell you that it can steal your teaching time and your joy. In all honesty, it's easy to become so consumed with the research of the curriculum that the actual teaching of the curriculum never gets done. I know this because I was guilty of this during my first year of homeschooling.

In truth, you could make any of the curriculums you listed in your post above work. Now, some may be a better fit for your family than others, but all will take the same thing to get done in the day-to-day. They each will require some sort of daily routine and will need time spent teaching them. In my 11 years of public school teaching prior to homeschooling, I had the opportunity to teach many different types and styles of curriculums. Some were more of my favorites than others, but they all got done in my classroom because I was required to teach them. In the home setting, we have so many things that draw us away from actually teaching. The telephone, the computer, the doorbell, the kids next door, our husbands, the crying baby, the character issues, the sick kiddos, the sibling issues, the doctor appointments, the owies, the hygiene, the chore training, the house cleaning, the organization of everything, the laundry, the grocery shopping, and on and on. It is so easy to end up just running around from thing to thing and never really accomplishing much.

I will tell you that in my 20+ years now of teaching, I have realized that a set routine for all members of the family (including baby and preschoolers especially ) and time carved out for me to actually teach are the two most important factors in how well our year goes. When those two things are in place, you can make any curriculum work.

Once I set my schedule in motion for the year, I may tweak it the first week or so and after that I do not change it. I just work the schedule until it becomes routine. If a schedule never becomes routine, then no one will ever know what to expect and as mom you'll never experience the true freedom that a routine schedule brings. This doesn't mean that the "routine" has to function on a strict time schedule, it just means that start times should be pretty much the same each day and the flow or order of the day should be the same.

When scheduling, I also make sure that my teaching time is not compromised with all of the "time stealers" that I listed above. I often need to remind myself of this as the year progresses and the "time stealers" start to creep in! In all of my curriculum researching, I've realized that my very best curriculums and very best years have been spent with curriculum that I actually got done in the day-to-day.

In the early years of homeschooling, it can take some tweaking to find your fit. However, tweaking is different than curriculum hopping. In all honesty, if you spend time hopping from one curriculum to another throughout the year, you'll never get a chance to see whether a curriculum will really work for you. Whenever I purchase a curriculum, I strive to use it for that year on a daily scheduled basis. I try to use it "as is" as much as possible to keep my work to a minimum and to allow me time to actually teach.

Before responding to your thread, I wanted to refresh my memory about the specifics of your situation in order to advise you better, so I went back to reread your previous posts on the board to help me a bit. I want to sincerely encourage you that you're not actually an HOD dropout, as in your previous posts you shared that you pretty much did your own thing this year instead of HOD (which is perfectly fine).

I'm assuming that since you've sold your HOD guides that you never really got past the first couple of units and that your research led you away from trying out the advice given in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2526

So, the good news is that you always have the option of really giving HOD a try if you decide to commit to using it in the day-to-day. At this point, since you've chosen a different curriculum path I would work toward making that work for you the rest of this year. I would focus on getting a routine in order for all kiddos in the household and carving out time away from the "time stealers" to make the end of your year successful. Then, when you take your summer break, I would complete the research on next year's curriculum and commit to teaching whatever you choose for the entire year next year.

If you do consider HOD at some point, you can always combine 4 year age spans with our guides quite easily once you get to Bigger Hearts on up. You can even tweak Beyond to work for a larger age span if needed, as many moms do. All of the programs you listed as researching in your post are going to require some additional separate time for little ones to learn their 3 R's, which is what LHTH and LHFHG help you do. So, the combining or not to combine decision is up to you, not up to the curriculum. We have many moms who successfully combine with HOD and many moms who choose not to. It's up to you to choose what works for you, and then we're here to help you decide how best to meet YOUR goals.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Patience]

Terri, when I read your post I had the thought "I've been there!" so I thought I might encourage you with a few things the Lord has been teaching me. I kind of went through what you are feeling with your main curriculum with math and really other curriculum too. I wanted to have my master plan all figured out, and for the life of me I couldn't lock in on any one curriculum. Before I had given one a chance, I was moving on to another. I would research and research and think and think, but it was hard for me to commit to something and be confident in that choice. It seems like you might be experiencing a bit of that with deciding on your curriculum.

A few things the Lord has taught me this year is that I wanted to share with you. There is no curriculum that is going to meet all your needs perfectly. The best thing to do is find things that bear the closest resemblance to what you want to do and tweak it as you need to to make it work for you. Secondly, I think it's really a trap that you need to have it all figured out for the next gazillion years. It is impossible to know what the specific needs, interests, other opportunities that might be available for the future. And it is just exhausting trying to work all that out. I have found alot of weight lifted off my shoulders as I remember that only God knows the future and that I am responsible only for today. We live in a world where we can be aware of so many possibilities via the internet, catalogs, etc. and so the future possibilities are always presenting themselves. I am seeing in my heart it really is an issue of contentment and trust in the Lord. I must trust the Lord that he will lead me to make good decisions and he will overrule my bad ones. I must be content so that I can live in the present moment, and not giving into worry or anxiety about the future. I need to actively pursue contentment in areas I struggle with so I can serve my family more effectively. Spending so much time thinking about other options really steals my time and energy to make the most of the time with my children today.

So, with God's help, I would encourage you to prayerfully make the best decision you can with the knowledge and understanding that you DO have and counsel from your husband or an older woman who knows you and your family, and give yourself wholeheartedly to that plan once it is made. I would encourage you with whatever decision you make, to actively pursue contentment and trust in the Lord that he will ensure your children get what they need. And I would encourage you to focus your heart on carrying out that plan that you made as effectively as you can and not worry about the following year until you arrive at that decision point.

And finally, I am learning that I need to keep the big picture before me. That the kids may love or not love parts of school no matter what curriculum I use. That I may love or not love parts of it at times. That I am building memories and relationships with my children and that is even more important than what material I teach. As I have sought to grow in contentment (it can be learned! Phillipians 4:11-13 says Paul "learned the secret of being content") God has blessed me so much and redeemed precious time with my children. You can make any curriculum work with a contented spirit! On my kitchen window, I have an index card titled "Recipe for Contentment" that reads: 1) Never allow yourself to complain about anything, not even the weather. 2) Never picture yourself in any other circumstance or someplace else. 3) Never compare your lot with another's. 4) Never allow yourself to wish this or that had been otherwise. 5) Never dwell on tomorrow - that is God's, not ours. I added number 6) Live fully in the present moment. These are hard to do! I share these things not correctively in any way. These are things the Lord has taught me this year and I am so grateful for the learning. I just wanted to pass it along in hopes that the Lord could use it to bless you or someone else.

Lastly, I do want to add that because you have a wonderfully blessed family of 5, your needs may be different than the next gal's who has only 2 or 3. No matter what curriculum you use, you may not be able to do as much as is suggested. When you need to skip something because of a sick child, or a squabble or needing to cook food, try to remember what you ARE doing, and forget what you did NOT get done. (Phillipians 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead) It is not solely your job to prepare your kids for their future. They are the Lord's and he promises to help. There are opportunities and circumstances that only he can devise for our children and their development. Who are we to think we can do it?

Well, I've outworn my welcome. I hope something I said here was helpful! I will pray for you as you seek to serve your family. They are blessed to have a mom such as you who cares so much about them.

[MamaMary]

(((Terri))) I LOVE your sweet honest spirit. I also think you've gotten some wonderful advice. I am a big believer that we have to try things out to see if we can make them work. When they don't we haven't failed it's just been part of our learning curve. Let me say first of all that if you chose NOT to go with HOD it's "Ok". HOD is a wonderful program but you have to find the one that is the perfect fit for YOUR home, your teaching style, the one that will give YOU a sense of success.

I remember the year I was in your shoes and it was a traditional worktext program that worked for me. I still remember being at the end of our first day and I cried tears of relief and JOY! I had been trying to make my unit study work and could not make it happen no matter how many different ways I tried. This worktext program gave me success and my children consistency while I worked on child training and homemaking. The next year I was able to step back into a unit study. As you seek the Lord let Him guide you and if it's not HOD then walk boldly in the direction He HAS called you. God knows your home, your children, your heart, your husband, your schedule. He has your best interest at heart!

IF you are really feeling as though the Lord is leading you to HOD I will tell you that the way I've made it work is by going to ONE program. I personally would choose to go under my child's level because I can beef up better than taking something beefy and simplifying. But each Mama's different. We felt just like you after trying to walk out three HOD programs. OTOH, I know MANY moms who use 2 & 3 HOD programs and LOVE it. I personally couldn't make it work, but I didn't want to leave the curriculum all together. I use something else for the three R's. These things have given me peace and a workable plan for HOD.

I am stopping and praying for you. You are doing a GREAT job Terri. You love those little ones of yours. I'll share my verse that helps me keep eternity in place when I'm struggling with the things of this world. Remember that curriculum is a tool. But we have to guard our hearts to keep from making it an idol. (guilty smile)

Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you. For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world. And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever....., 1 John 2:15-17

[Patience]

That's good advice Mama Mary. I don't think I could do multiple programs either, unless one of them was the preschool or kindergarten program. I just think it would be too overwhelming for me.

[MommyInTraining]

Thank you all for your advice and encouragement.

Julie and Carrie, I will respond to some of the things in your posts hopefully later tonight.

MamaMary, thank you for your words of wisdom. The reason that I came back over to the board is because I was hoping there was a way that I could make it work with ONE program, but was unsure if I could do that. That was what I was really wanting to find out. Do you have any old posts that you can link me to where you talking about combining into one program? I just didn't like the way it felt to be using two (3 if you count LHTH) programs. I want us unified in science and history. I don't like the way it feels to be in two different places for science and history. I know the older will need more than the younger and that is why programs like TOG and MFW and WP appeal to me because you can put them together (until high school in MFW and through high school with TOG). So, I was wanting to know if there is anyway that I can do that with HOD. I understand that language arts and math are going to be different. But, I am looking for combining history, science, poetry, music, art, and Bible. I just know that when I was using Bigger, there were things that would not have been appropriate for my 5 and 7 year olds ( I am thinking about the vocabulary and science notebooking right off the top of my head).

I have to run. I will write more later.

Thank you all!

[momontheprairie]

Hi,

I am caroline4kids over at the WTM board and I just wanted to jump in and add a bit about what I have found with combining. My son is 11 and just this year I have noticed how he is more able to work independently. I am using Bigger over the summer to try it out because I thought it would be nice to "beef up" a program instead of the other way around. I am going to have my son read some more Eggleston books on his own and continue with readers at his level. He now can check in with me and narrate or write narrations and I can see how he is progressing. Now I do grammar the other way. I start at the top level and my younger ones drop out as it gets too hard. Charlotte Mason said that children learn best when they "read to learn". My 11 year old joins in on all our readings, but he also has significant alone time digesting living books. That frees me up to work with the younger ones.

From what I have gathered, Carrie has done a tremendous job of working kids toward independent learning. I am really drawn to it.

Terri, I just noticed your children's ages and your oldest will be getting more independent in the next couple of years. I like to do one program as much as possible too. If I aim for the middle everyone seems to get most of what they need and I keep my sanity.

I did Five in a Row for years and was always astounded to find out how much I learned from picture books. I think a child only needs a finite amount of "grade level" material and that much learning comes from enjoying good books at all levels.

[Alison in KY]

Terri, what ages are your children again?

Alison

[Lynnw]

Terri,
I don't know what will work or not for you.... but if it were *me* I don't think there is 1 program for 5 children. I do think it's possible to use Beyond with your oldest three for a year. I think it can be beefed up for your oldest. Whether or not you could all go to Bigger after that, I'm not sure. It would depend on if your 5yo (would be 6 by then I guess?) would be ready for the read alouds and work in Bigger. I can't remember if I shared this with you before or not, but I bought TOG redesign year 1 before I came to HOD. We were on schedule to start ancients in the fall with my oldest and for over a year now I thought I would go to TOG and combine everyone from then on out. I had TOG in hand and began reviewing it before Christmas and nearly cried everytime I tried to imagine planning a week with it. The benefit was that my kids could have all been studying the same subject at the same time, but that's where the "sameness" ended. There were so many decisions to make - different vocabulary lists (really long ones!) every week for each level, different readings, different assignments. At the end of it, it still felt like a different program for each child. And I was stressed about how I would gauge how much was enough, etc. I did not have confidence in my ability to to choose (and to know I had chosen well) from the great buffet as it is called. From there I began to consider MFW - known for it's ability to put children of different ages together - but my 5 yo and 7 yo should have been in K and 1st according to their own plan, not tagging along their CTG program. I saw some resources I liked and some I knew I would be changing, tweaking.... and it felt like I was trying to hold sand in my fists... but the sand kept leaking out until I was left with very little. Then I found HOD and saw all it's benefits... which you've read about many times and I won't list again. Aside from a detailed list of benefits, I saw that HOD would give me the confidence to know what I should expect of my children and to work on their skills within the context of living books and Biblical application. It seems that it will get me where I want to go and that the process of getting there is doable, enjoyable. In other words, both the ends and the means satisfy what I need.

In short, if I wanted the oldest three in one program, I would combine them in Beyond.

I don't know if that is helpful at all. I'm not saying that HOD has to be the answer for you, I just wanted to share my own journey as I searched for a way to combine my children. I'm praying for you.

Blessings,
Lynn

[MommyInTraining]

Terri, what ages are your children again?

Alison

Alison,

In the fall they will be 10, 8, 6, 4, and almost 2 (with a possible pregnancy )

For others who have commented and are willing to help me:

My 10 yo does fairly well with independent work. My 7yo (soon to be 8 ) boy needs a lot of hand holding, is hesitant to want to learn things that do not interest him, and is just starting to read a little and still struggles with math. My 5 yo girl (6 in the summer) is progressing well with reading and loves to learn. I will probably not graduate the 10 yo and 7 yo until they are 19, so I will have my 10 yo doing 4th grade and my 8 yo doing 2nd grade this coming year.

I am not sure why I didn't like using Bigger with my 9/10 year old. Maybe because we have been focused on American History for so long. Maybe because I don't really care for the One Small Square books. Maybe because I felt overwhelmed trying to do it along with Little Hands and Little Hearts. I just really feel like I want us on that one page for history and science. Am I wrong to think that way?

This is one of the options I have been tossing around:

Doing Preparing or HHTT with all of them for history, but mainly just focusing on the 3 R's for the younger two. And, then, using WP Animal Worlds for science for everyone and leaving out HOD science.

What other options do you see for us?