Help me choose a program!

[jhusted]

I want to use HOD next year but I keep going back and forth on which year I should start with. We did MFW Exploring Countries and Cultures this year and I planned on starting with ancients next year using Mystery of History. I have a dd 10 in June, ds will be 8 1/2 in the fall when we start, dd 6 in October, and ds 4 in September. I thought I should use preparing because both of my oldest fit into the age range. Plus, my son is a strong reader and ahead in math. They are both in Singapore 3A right now. I was also looking at Bigger, but I question whether it will be challenging enough for the two oldest. I don't want to get stuck always having to buy an extension pack for both of them. I would like to keep all of my children together for Bible, History, and Science so I do not plan to buy a second program. (At least not for next year.) I do have LHTH that I am using with my youngest right now, but I just plan on using my own reading program, Explode the Code books, First Language Lessons and Singapore 1A for my dd 6 and have them both listen in on the olders program.

I don't know if any of that makes any sense, but I pray that someone can give me some words of wisdom to help me make a decision. I really want to stop looking at curriculum choices and just get it ordered. I thought I had this all figured out when I ordered MOH but I was spending too much time trying to figure out reading lists and planning everthing to go with it. I really think HOD is an answer to pray. I like how everything is layed out for me on a two page spread. And I really love how the Bible is intergrated with all your learning.

Thanks for listening,

Joanne

[Mom25]

Hi Joanne--We did MFW ECC last year and are finishing up Preparing this year. I thought it was a wonderful sequence--one year of geography followed by one year of world history overview. My twins were 9 when we did Preparing and we had a great year. Not sure if this will help you decide, but this was our experience. Now we're trying to decide what to do for Ancients, CTG or CTC!

[Tree House Academy]

I think your plan sounds like a good one. Go with your gut as to where they "fit" - you definitely know your kids. I had a hard time choosing with my youngest, but in the end, I went with my gut and it was perfect.

Best of luck and welcome to HOD!

[Carrie]

Joanne,

I just wanted to welcome you to the board! We're glad to have you here! In looking at placement, it sounds like you are primarily looking for a program for your oldest pair of kiddos, so I would put your decision-making focus on them when choosing between Bigger and Preparing.

I would lean toward placing both of your older kiddos in Preparing Hearts, however one consideration in that placement would be how well your 8 and 1/2 year old writes/copies/etc. Preparing Hearts does have daily writing included in a variety of ways that could be too much for an 8 year old who does not like to write. So, that is something to weigh.

If your 8 year old does well in listening to longer chapter book style read-alouds and is a strong reader overall then that will help him in Preparing Hearts. While you could choose to do Bigger Hearts instead, it is sounding like the fit you are seeking (according to the placement chart) would more likely be Preparing Hearts.

I'd love to hear your thoughts if you get a chance to pop back in.

Blessings,
Carrie

[jhusted]

Thank you for your reply Carrie (and others). I am drawn to Preparing partly because of the History focus and partly because I want my older kids to be more independent. That is something we have been working on this year. However, I don't want to push my son into a program that will be too difficult. He does not like to write, but he will do what needs to be done. He does short copywork and dictation assignments 2 times a week. We started Writing with Ease halfway through the year and have been skimming the year two lessons with the plan on doing year 3 next year. I am wondering if I could just skip some of the writing if it is becoming too much for him, or would that weaken the overall program. I am also guessing that if I go with Preparing I would not need to do another writing program as I had planned.

Would I need to add DITHOR for my 3rd grader or would the Deluxe Package provide enough reading? My 5th grader will most likely be taking an Excellence in Writing Class once a week so she will be covered for reading and writing with the homework assigned from that class.

I have not looked at Rod and Staff yet, but I had thought about doing Growing with Grammar or another grammar workbook that my kids could do independently.

I have been neglecting my 3 year old by spending so much time with his siblings, so I really want to spread my time more evenly between the kids. When it says it takes 4 hours to do Preparing, does that include everything? (Math, Reading w/DITHOR, Grammar, and their Independent Study) How much time would you say is teacher intensive?

Okay, so I started looking at Bigger again. It does look very doable. I'm doing it again. This is why I need help. If I chose Bigger, could I use the Deluxe Classic set for Storytime and then the Deluxe Boy and/or Girl Sets for independent readers? Does it schedule these for me? I'm guessing I could also have them read the science indepedently as well. Also, with Bigger my 5th grader would be beyond the age recommendations. It looks like the extensions just cover reading for history and science, so would I need something else to make sure writing and grammar were extended as well, or are there plans in the appendix for those as well? (This would be okay as long as the writing class works out. But if it doesn't I don't want to have to find something else for her.)

Furthermore, as far as my younger kids are concerned, how long can they tag along with the older two doing History and Bible? In other words, when do the read-alouds become more than their little ears should hear? We're always together anyways, so if I'm reading aloud they're bound to be listening. I would of course do their own Math and Language Arts. I just don't know that I want to be restricted to a schedule for that.

Well, I think that's enough questions for now. I'm making myself dizzy just trying to think it all through. Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it!

Sincerely,
Joanne

[my3sons]

Welcome to the HOD board, Joanne! After reading your second post here, I think Bigger Hearts would be a better fit overall for your dc. My thinking here is that Bigger Hearts is a very full program, and it would be soooo nice to let your 8 yo grow into writing a bit to get the full benefit of PHFHG the next year. Your 6 yo would also be able to listen in on the history/science much more easily if you used Bigger Hearts, and your older child would be advanced enough by using the history/science extension, doing an R & S Grammar lesson four days a week (a level of your choosing), and higher level math (2A/2B is planned in the Math Box of Bigger Hearts daily plans, and 3A/3B is scheduled in Bigger Heart's Appendix). You could use the Spelling List in the Appendix of Bigger Hearts for your 8 1/2 yo, and the dictation for your 10 yo. You could see if you thought the dictation in the Appendix was challenging enough for your oldest - maybe just try it out and see. You could always skip ahead in the dictation to the middle, or so of the level, and then later, if you wanted even higher level dictation, you could use the PHFHG guide's Appendix eventually. I think Bigger Hearts would allow your dc to be more independent overall, and it also is easy on “little ears”.

You could do any 1 of the Storytime book packs that you'd like (either classic, boy, or girl). These would be for you to read aloud to them. Then, you could have both of them do DITHOR, your oldest could do level 4/5, and your youngest could do Level 2/3. You can just choose a DITHOR book pack for each of them. The Level 2 Book Pack has reading levels ranging from 3rd to 4th grade. The Level 3 Book Pack has reading levels ranging from 3.5 to 5.1. The Level 4/5 Book Packs range from 4.0 to 5.7, and you can choose a girl or boy interest focus there. Here is a link to each of those package choices:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into-optional.php
http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into-optional4-5.php

Or, you can certainly put together your own book packs, making sure to have enough books for each child to read each genre for 15 days. As I've had more dc to homeschool, and more to teach - I've LOVED using the DITHOR book packs because they are all awesome books, they are all already matched to the genre, the number of reading days is planned already, and if I own some of the books I can just order the ones I'm missing. Plus, no trips to the library (which in my case, means no late fees ).

Then, I think it would be great in the future, to combine your 2 oldest moving ahead, and put your 5 and 7 yo together at some point. You would then only be doing 2 HOD programs, which is extremely manageable (I've been doing it for 3 years running now).

Now, if you totally go the other way and end up loving PHFHG - that would be just fine too! We all like to kick around ideas here until you feel at peace. Praying for clarity for you in this decision! Either BHFHG or PHFHG is a find!!!

In Christ,
Julie

[jhusted]

Thank you Julie. I appreciate the feedback. I've started leaning towards Bigger, but what's holding me back is that both of my older children will be starting Singapore 3B before the summer and will probably be in 4A sometime next fall. Also, while my son may not enjoy writing, he is an excellent speller, so I don't think he'd need the spelling; however, the dictation may work for him. I'm wondering, how much of the Language Arts is in the Bigger Plans themselves and how much is done by way of outside resources such as R&S and DITHOR. One of the draws to HOD is that everything is scheduled for you. I'm afraid if I choose a program too young for my kids then I will be piecing together two or more different programs to make it work.

Thank you for your help and prayers while I try to sort things out.

Joanne

[Carrie]

JoAnne,

In talking through options for your older two, it would help us to know what each of your kiddos have had as far as grammar instruction and dictation/spelling up to this point. I'm also wondering if your kiddos have had much oral narration practice or have done any written narrations yet?

One more area that will be utilized is notebooking, so I'd love to know if your kiddos have done much notebooking (sketching with labeling and coywork of several sentences up to a paragraph).

If you don't mind sharing a bit more about these areas, it will help guide us toward a more sure placement.

Blessings,
Carrie

[jhusted]

My dd 10 went through First Language Lessons 1/2 and 3, but we skipped most of the diagramming in 3. She is working through a basic grammar 4th grade book right now, but we haven't gotten very far. She also started Writing Tales 3 but it has been pushed aside. My ds 8 will finish FLL 1/2 this year and we're skimming through Writing with Ease year 2.

They both started the year doing copywork 3 times a week. (Usually a memory verse, poems, or vocabulary words and definitions.) We're not doing that as much now. They also have cursive handwriting practice 3 times a week. We haven't done very much narration. Only what we did using FLL. I tried to start having them narrate from our read-alouds but they got tired of doing it and I stopped asking. Neither have done much in the way of written narrations. I was having them draw a picture and write a few sentences about their science reading, but that has also stopped as of late. My son would usually write one maybe two sentences and my daughter could write four or more.

Both of my kids love the Draw Write Now books. We have used these the last two years correlating them with MFW.

As far as dictation/spelling goes, we haven't done a lot this year. I started All About Spelling so we could go back to the basics and relearn the phonics rules, but it has been too easy. My son is an excellent speller. My daughter needs some work in this area. She's really hard on herself if she misses a word, so it's hard to correct her without it involving tears.

I think I've decided to go with Bigger as my main choice, I just need to figure out the Language Arts part of it. I found DITHOR at our local homeschool supply store so I am excited to use that next year. I just need to figure out what level to use and what grammar and writing to add to it.

Also, we're a little unique in that my kids attend classes (Music, Art, Spanish, etc.) two days a week at a public school program, so I am trying to do everything else in the three days they are at home.

Thank you for your help. This has been a really tough decision to make. I want to make sure I have all my bases covered, but at the same time, I don't want to over do anything.

Joanne

[my3sons]

My dd 10 went through First Language Lessons 1/2 and 3, but we skipped most of the diagramming in 3. She is working through a basic grammar 4th grade book right now, but we haven't gotten very far. She also started Writing Tales 3 but it has been pushed aside. My ds 8 will finish FLL 1/2 this year and we're skimming through Writing with Ease year 2.

They both started the year doing copywork 3 times a week. (Usually a memory verse, poems, or vocabulary words and definitions.) We're not doing that as much now. They also have cursive handwriting practice 3 times a week. We haven't done very much narration. Only what we did using FLL. I tried to start having them narrate from our read-alouds but they got tired of doing it and I stopped asking. Neither have done much in the way of written narrations. I was having them draw a picture and write a few sentences about their science reading, but that has also stopped as of late. My son would usually write one maybe two sentences and my daughter could write four or more.

Both of my kids love the Draw Write Now books. We have used these the last two years correlating them with MFW.

As far as dictation/spelling goes, we haven't done a lot this year. I started All About Spelling so we could go back to the basics and relearn the phonics rules, but it has been too easy. My son is an excellent speller. My daughter needs some work in this area. She's really hard on herself if she misses a word, so it's hard to correct her without it involving tears.

I think I've decided to go with Bigger as my main choice, I just need to figure out the Language Arts part of it. I found DITHOR at our local homeschool supply store so I am excited to use that next year. I just need to figure out what level to use and what grammar and writing to add to it.

Also, we're a little unique in that my kids attend classes (Music, Art, Spanish, etc.) two days a week at a public school program, so I am trying to do everything else in the three days they are at home.

Thank you for your help. This has been a really tough decision to make. I want to make sure I have all my bases covered, but at the same time, I don't want to over do anything.

Joanne

I've been pondering this for some time - I've actually reread this post of yours a half dozen times. First, I do think Bigger Hearts with the Extensions is a good core to choose for combining. I think it will give your dc great practice in oral narrations, and that will give them the necessary foundation to learn written narrations the next year in PHFHG. I also think that because your 10 yo dd has not done sentence diagramming, R & 3 would be a good placement for her because that is where diagramming is first taught - or if you want to be more rigorous with her, you could do R & S 4 half-speed, but just know you'll have to help her out more with the diagramming parts. Either way, she'd be on track to finish R & S 6 by eighth grade, which is HOD's recommendation. Of course, if you have different goals than that, you'll want to consider those.

What you described here fits well with the type of notebooking in BHFHG too: I was having them draw a picture and write a few sentences about their science reading, but that has also stopped as of late. My son would usually write one maybe two sentences and my daughter could write four or more. The writing in PHFHG picks up more, so I think BHFHG will get them ready for that nicely. The copywork of the poems in BHFHG will also be helpful in developing your dd's spelling, and I think the dictation in BHFHG would fit her well. This will help her build confidence in her spelling, while also stretching her since dictation is harder than spelling lists because it parallels natural writing more closely. Likewise, your ds could do BHFHG's spelling list, or he could even try the dictation, since spelling is his strong suit - however, you may want to be careful about comparisons between the 2. If you start the dictation in BHFHG and it is too easy, you can skip ahead to the middle of it, or eventually order the PHFHG guide if you need the next levels of dictation. I've found it "looks" easier than it is - it's tougher than you'd think to get it ALL right - especially including the punctuation. It's discouraging if dc are missing more than 1 or 2 dictation passages a week, if you have that in mind as you get going, you can easily adjust the level of difficulty as needed.

For DITHOR, I still think you could have your ds do Level 2/3, and your dd do Level 4/5. You could choose the book packs according to their level and interest. I hope some of this helps, and I will continue to pray for you in your decision. Carrie is writing a lot now, but she still tries to get on the board - she may chime in her soon as well.

In Christ,
Julie

[jhusted]

Thank you Julie,

I don't know why I'm having such a hard time making this decision. I guess I just don' t want to spend anymore money on curriculum that doesn't get used. I think Bigger looks really exciting. I'm a little worried about the language in the Eggleston books because we aren't used to that style . I do have a question about the extension package. I'm assuming the extension package is to be read by the student, however, my 10 year old is not a strong reader. I'd rather focus her reading on the DITHOR books and make it more fun. Do you still think Bigger would be challenging enough without the extension? Should I get some of the extension books to read-aloud instead of having dd read them? If so, do you have any recommendations on which of the books would be best to add?

I am very grateful for you taking the time to help me with this decision. I really like the idea of HOD and I am wanting to make it work for my family. I feel like I really need to find a program and stick with it so my oldest can get through the history cycle at least once. If we start in Bigger, my dd will be in 10th grade when we finish. I know I shouldn't worry too much about the years to come but I have to at least take it into consideration.

Thank you again,

Joanne

[my3sons]

The extension pack is meant for the student to read independently, so if you have the time and would enjoy reading those titles out loud to your ds, you could certainly do that. Otherwise, you could begin the year without the extensions and see how it goes - you could always add it later if you feel it is necessary. This will give your ds's reading ability a chance to soar with DITHOR, and you can focus on that goal for him by emphasizing reading with DITHOR. BHFHG is a full program, and the books in the core of it are wonderful. Eggleston has such a way with words - he is an incredible "storyteller", and his books fit the definition of "living books" to a T. My ds took to them right away, but I remember with Child's History of the World (which is another classic book like Eggleston's that is used in PHFHG), it took my ds about 3 weeks of it to really get into it. Now, he loves it! I also think that he was excited about it because I became excited about it, and very interested in the readings myself. I never learned about history this way - it has so much more depth than the way I learned history by memorizing names, dates, and events (usually just for "the test" ). I think you will find you become very interested in these books too, and that your interest just carries over to your dc's response to the books. Eggleston's books are the kind of books we want our dc to learn to love - they are classic, timeless, and they pave the way for future classic literature to be studied - like Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Hemmingway, etc. I think they are a necessary bridge to that end. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[Carrie]

Joanne,

I think that with the very full schedule that you have shared that you have, along with you kiddos previous language arts studies that you've shared that Bigger Hearts is a good placement overall for your kiddos. I agree that you will need a bit to get used to Eggleston's style of writing and that you should plan for it to take some time to hit your stride if you are new to his style of writing. I would caution you on giving up on his books too soon and agree that the fruit of the more CM-style books such as Eggleston's is in the long haul. My boys loved his books and were sad to see them end. I think the skills that you'll find within Bigger Hearts will be wonderful building blocks for Preparing Hearts the next year.

I would also agree that placing your 10 year old in English 3 (for a solid building block year) or English 4 at half-speed (for a more rigorous year) is a good decision. I would place your 8 year old in Rod and Staff English 2.

I agree that DITHR is where you want your focus to be for improving reading skills and focusing on comprehension. The Extension Pack could be read aloud by you, rather than being independent reading if needed. You could always begin without the Extension Pack and add it if needed, however bear in mind that it is recommended for 10-11 year olds to extend the readings in Bigger.

You may need to extend the dictation passages in Bigger Hearts for your oldest, however my3son's gave you excellent advice for beginning in the middle of them if needed first.

We pray you'll enjoy your HOD journey as much as we have!

Blessings,
Carrie

[jhusted]

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me sort this out! I've decided to give Bigger a try without the extensions and see where it takes us. I'm still sorting out the Language Arts, but I think I'll finish what we've started and take another look at the end of the summer. I plan to start DITHOR in the fall. Both my kids will be tested in Reading next month, so I'll have a better idea on how to place them. I'll probably be back with more questions, but for now, I feel at peace with my decision.

Thank you so much! You've all been a big help! I'm really looking forward to getting started.

Joanne