Need Your Wisdom!

[Mom2Monkeys]

My dd7 (almost 8 ) has just started Bigger, after completing Beyond. She can recall lots of details without any particular order to them, generally isn't able to do the narrating any better by my asking "what happened first...middle...last?", She has INCREDIBLE comprehension when she reads, but still can't seem to really narrate (if that makes any sense at all)...If I read, it's even worse. She can tell SO SO much about what was read, but can not pick out what's important, or give it in order, or tell me the main idea in many cases. She can read a 4th-5th grade level book and tell me EVERYTHING that was in it in a jumbled up fashion (especially if she found it very interesting). I'm having a hard time coaching her b/c although I can answer questions (sometimes) after reading, I don't have good comprehension and I am awful at retelling. I can't even model narrating! I'm one of the kids that breezed through high school without ever having to read the text and still graduated with honors...so I'm one of those adults that never developed good study skills!

Should I let her read books from the emerging reader set, then ask her the questions to help her develop a sense of what to narrate about and what I'm actually looking for. That would help me develop the sense of what to guide her to as well! She's doing okay with DITHOR 2/3 (we're not consistent on it right now) but has to return to the reading frequently to complete the work. She can read on a 5.7 grade level and has a huge vocab and tends to understand the story as she's reading it very well...it's just regurgitating the info that brings us to a screeching halt.

What do you think? I feel like if we keep going through Bigger and continue at the same rate with our narrating, we'll fall behind. Another thought, should I have her listen in on her brother's read alouds (LHFHG) and narrate on those instead (although there's still more guidance with the Em. Rd. set). Obviously, I'm confused...which is why I've come pleading for your wisdom!

[Carrie]

Mom2Monkeys,

In reading your post, two things really jump out at me that will definitely affect how well your child is able to narrate. The first one is to make sure that you are asking for narrations from books that are at the appropriate level of comprehension for your daughter. While she may be able to read the words within books at the 5th grade reading level that doesn't mean that she is necessarily comprehending the storyline. To show you what I mean, I'll compare it to having a child listen to two grown-ups having a conversation. While most kiddos can definitely parrot back what the adults said in the conversation, maturity and limited understanding of the topics will most likely make comprehension of the conversation difficult. The same is true when having kiddos narrate from a book with a very high reading level (especially when the child is quite young). The child can parrot back what was read in some sort of jumbled form, but maturity and limited understanding makes them miss the main thread of the story.

Narration is one way to tell how well a child is comprehending. So, for school purposes I would choose books in between the Emerging Reader set and the 5th grade reading level for her. That means she would most likely do best with the Level 2 or 3 Books in our DITHR book sets for narration and DITHR purposes.

The next very key area of narration is to make sure that you're only asking for narrations on short readings, gradually moving to longer readings when her narrations get better. So, if your child is struggling with narrating, then you need to back way up and only read several pages before asking for a narration. The same is true for books she is reading. Most kiddos who read well young turn into speed readers, flying past the details and even important parts of the story at times. Make a point of keeping the readings short on narration day, or if the reading is longer, stop every few pages to have her narrate on that section of the story. If she still isn't successful, then narrate after one page. The point is to get her to slow down and think about what she's reading and focus on how the different pieces of the story fit together rather than just parroting back.

Make sure to use the prompts in the guide as tools to guide her narration, however the two tips I shared above will make the most impact on successful narration.

Blessings,
Carrie

[6timeboymom]

Narration is something that we don't work as hard on as I think we should, so I can relate! I will ask the boys what they read, or what I just read to them, and they will say, "oh, something about a guy who likes birds and stuff." from our John Audubon book.
I like Carrie's advice; just thought I'd jump in to commiserate with you!

[Mom2Monkeys]

Thanks for your replies Let me throw out some more details...

Carrie, I am just having her narrate from the books used for Bigger whenever narration is scheduled and we're using the Level 2 and 3 book packs for DITHOR. I've tried stopping after just a page and having her tell me what happened first, next, and last and she can't tell me in order or can't remember back to the first part. She does a little better if she reads it or at least follows along. She did AWESOME with the Aesop's Fables book after reading that on her own (was meant to be a read aloud-- she's sneaky!). But, she absolutely loved that book! She does the best narrating with science non-fiction (like Pagoo, One Small Square), folk tale, and fantasy...sometimes adventure.

Here's where our situation is a little more unique. She's not a special needs child per say, just a little different way of working. She has hearing loss, and although she has a hearing aid, she doesn't wear it everyday. She has very sensitive skin and the hearing aid irritates it pretty bad. It's just a mild hearing loss in both ears, one being worse than the other. They've only given her one aid for now, although might give her a second later. I wonder if I should be letting her do most of the reading herself on narration days or if I should be training her hard to compensate for the hearing loss???
She has an ADHD type personality and was diagnosed with it until they did an EEG, then we found that she doesn't have ADHD-- the neurologist said she is just gifted and many gifted children are mistakenly thought to have ADHD.
Her PT and OT thought she probably has a mild sensory processing issues as well-- She needs a lot of input and seems to crave movement and auditory stimulation (humming, etc.). It's been too cold so we haven't had our outside "sensory fix" we would normally use to help her focus(the swing!).

I wonder if I should approach it differently considering all this? She's very bright, and I'm not looking to make it "easy" for her. I still want her to be challenged! (and she does better with a challenge!)

[Carrie]

Tamara,

I would agree that with what you've shared it would be best if your daughter could do the short readings herself. Most kiddos will narrate better on something that they're read for themselves, but in your daughter's situation it will make even more difference.

It is typical for a narration from Aesop's Fables to be better than a narration from a longer story. CM herself started with Aesop's Fables to teach oral narration skills! This is because the fables are short, self-contained stories with a definite moral at the end (so it's easier to find the main point of thread of the story). If your daughter can narrate well from the fables, then she is getting oral narration but needs to work on building up the skill.

When starting out your daughter's narration time, read aloud the very first sentence from the day's reading to give her a starting point and to help her set her mind on where the reading started for the day. Then, have her narrate from there.

Again, you'll most likely need to break even the short readings up by asking her for a narration after a page or two of reading. Before she begins narrating, tell her that you really want her to focus on the order that things happened in the story or passage and you want her to try to tell it back to you in order. Have her skim over the page or two of what she read and fix the order in her mind before she begins narrating. If you can model for her what an out-of-order narration sounds like and then give an orderly narration of the same passage that will help her see that a jumbled mess of details is not what you're looking for.

Pay attention to the narration tips that are in the Appendix of the Bigger Hearts guide. Make sure your daughter has her student copy on how to narrate next to her when narrating. You will want to look over the narration tips for the parent in the Appendix too.

Blessings,
Carrie