Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

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AboveRubiesMama
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Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by AboveRubiesMama » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:01 pm

From looking at the Placement chart, it looks as though oldest dd would fit in the Beyond Little Hearts (or possibly even Little Hearts w/ Emerging Readers). I can't imagine her going into Bigger Hearts though, as the materials in that seem over her level). And my son would fall into either the Little Hearts or Little Hands. I have two other little ones, but I'll explain that later.

I'm doing some research for next school year (I research in the fall, order in the spring, and start school in the summer).

My oldest dd will be 7, in the 2nd grade, and is "typically developing." This year, for first grade, we are doing CLE's first grade Math, Reading (plus Learning to Read), and Language Arts. We're using CLP's Our Father's World for Science. We plan to continue with CLE's 2nd grade Math, Language Arts, and Reading.

My son (who will be 5 and in Kindergarten) is special needs. Until a year ago, he was developmentally half his age. Currently he's 4 1/2, he's developmentally only 3-3 1/2. There are a few areas in which he still tests at the age of 2 1/2. He attends 10-11 hours of therapy (OT, PT, and Speech) and attends 5 days a week. His therapists want him to have as much exposure as possible to what his "typically developing" peers are doing. They want him to have as close to a traditional Kindergarten as possible. While they don't expect him to learn how to read 3 letter words while in Kindergarten, they DO want him to have exposure to ABC's (simple phonics), handwriting, etc. The last Psychologist who saw him said if he's not caught up in the next 2 or 3 years, he'll likely be diagnosed as Mentally Retarded and will not make it past a 2nd grade education (a HUGE reason why we're homeschooling). We've looked at the Explode the Code Primers and the first couple of pages of each lesson looked OK, but that would be his limit--just to give an idea of his listening skills/comprehension. When it comes to explaining directions, his brain doesn't always seem as though it's "firing" or "clicking," and often times I'll have to re-read the instructions for every single task/line/etc. that he needs to do. He's extremely visual though and once he gets something, he gets it.

My 3rd child will be 4 years old and is "typically developing." She would easily place in the Little Hands. BTW, she and my son are only 18 months apart.

Our 4th child will only be a baby, so while I won't be doing anything "formal," it's just something to throw in to describe my work load.
Any ideas or suggestions?
Last edited by AboveRubiesMama on Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

MamaMary
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by MamaMary » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:10 am

Let me ask you a quick question? Are you planning on using HOD for all subjects? This will make a huge difference in which option you might want to use. Because of your heavy therapy schedule here are two options to consider:

Option A- Figure out placement based on the chart for all your precious arrows. Then find ONE core program to use for your history/science/bible/poetry/activities. Purchase the whole program for that core, then purchase just manuals (no core programs) for the other programs your children test into for their core subjects. (Math/La/Spelling/etc)

OR

Option B- Find the core program you want to use with all your children. Purchase the full program and then use what you've been using for math/la/spelling/etc..,

This year I am using Beyond with my 6, 8 & 12 year old. (My 12 is finally reading PTL, but he is at a 2nd grade reading level) I have been using ACE for his basics and he is still getting an incredible amount from Beyond. We are doing all of the history/science/peotry/bible/activities. "I" am learning so much from Beyond. I just told my husband this weekend that over Christmas break I am thinking of pulling out the Bigger manual and pull Colton up into the "Bigger" basics. He has grown so much this year that I feel he is now ready for the R&S grammar.

Another plus for HOD is that you really are in the drivers seat and can make it work for you, not the other way around. The one thing I wish I had done differently was when my dad was sick and I was traveling I put HOD down and just did the basics. If I could do it again I would do HOD, but just the reading. I didn't do it because I hated not doing some of the activities. Afterwards, I could have always gone back and done those when things slowed down. I hope this helps :wink:
Mary, Mama to 4 amazing sons and wife to one incredible husband! Come check us out on the blog: http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/MamaMary/

AboveRubiesMama
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by AboveRubiesMama » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:44 pm

Well I plan to use CLP's stuff for science and history, so was happy to see these are the books used in HOD.

I haven't decided yet about the core.

I want to keep with CLE for Math, LA, and Reading for my oldest, but I'm also starting to look into ACE because it's independent. She loves the independent work part of CLE. But when I looked at some of the ACE 2nd grade Paces, it looked as though she's already gone over many of the materials just being introduced in ACE. But perhaps this is what happens when switching from spiral to mastery? I do love CLE and the only reason why I'm considering ACE is to add in more flexibility for the family and she'll be able to be more independent in these areas.

As for my ds (the one with SNs), I don't see him being able to do the Singapore stuff, at least not at this rate. I'm wondering if I should do the Little Hands to Heaven for him, along with my then 4 year old. But I also wonder if that's going to be too easy for him? I just know that at the moment, he can ID some letters but as for knowing the sounds and matching them, he still struggles. Sometimes I wonder if I should just order the Little Hands NOW and try to do it THIS year with him. While I'm not crazy keeping him a year behind, I also worry about giving him something that's going to be too much as well.

Looking at the placement chart right now and projecting into the future, oldest dd really does fit very well in Beyond (Bigger just seems to be a little too much), DS would fall somewhere in between Little Hands and Little Hearts, and of course my 3rd child fits perfectly into the Little Hands.

In honesty, I'm worried about what we're going to do for the 3 R's with my SN son, but at the moment, my immediate concern is finding him a good program which introduces him to his ABC's/sounds so he can go on into phonics. I bought ClicknRead from clicknkids and I think it's going to be perfect for him, when the time is right. Unless some miracle happens, I just don't see him going into CLE for his Math and Reading. He also has OCD, so sticking to something until it's understood isn't just how he learns best, it's pretty much a need.
Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. ~Proverbs 31:10

my3sons
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by my3sons » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:07 pm

Welcome to the HOD board! I used LHTH with my ds who needed 2 years of speech therapy (he was born about 2 months prematurely). LHTH did WONDERS for him - he learned his letters, his sounds, and he LOVED doing it. My ds really struggled with speech, and also was very delayed in crawling, walking, etc. - yet he thrived with LHTH and now that he's almost 9 yo, he's doing Preparing... this year and doing super! I do think this is due to all of his years of doing HOD (and first and foremost due to the Lord's faithfulness).

I did Beyond... with my oldest ds when was pregnant on bedrest with my middle ds (which, btw, bedrest is not very possible when you have other children :shock: :lol: ). We were able to get it done, and I homeschooled from the couch basically. We still thoroughly enjoyed Beyond..., and were able to do all of it (I just didn't stand up to do the activities :D - I set the stuff out the night before in piles on our counter - or had dh pack them in the car if it was one of the multiple once a week or more appointment days I had for my high risk pregnancy.)

I did Bigger... and LHFHG last year, and we took it on the road a LOT because my baby had helmet appointments and reflux appointments every week. I had a backpack for each of the children, and we packed them the night before. I also asked if they had an empty room I could use while we waited (appointments took around 1 1/2 hours or more). Sometimes they were able to give me a tiny room, and that worked great; but, even if no room was available we quietly did our reading/ activities in a corner of the waiting room.

I think you'd find HOD is portable, fun, and easy to implement. You may want to just get started with LHTH with your ds now, or as soon as you can. It only takes 20-30 minutes a day, and it fits your primary focus of "finding him a good program which introduces him to his ABC's/sounds so he can go on into phonics" to a T!!! :D Plus, it's just precious to do - what wonderful memories I have of doing LHTH with each of my dc. :D As far as your other child doing LHTH, you could either have her do it too or not. I'd be inclined to wait with her, since she is young and also so you could really put all of your focus on your ds right now. As far as your older dd, Beyond... sounds like a super fit! I know firsthand that it is easy to take to appointments, and it only took me about 3 hours to do. Plus, we LOVED it! :D I'm like Kathleen, I used to think hands-on things sounded neat but would not get them done. I get them done with HOD. They're short, use things I have, and the dc can do them.

Finally, the Bible part with its personal application is a major reason we enjoy HOD. Kind of like the hands-on activities, I would read the Bible with my dc but the in-depth, relevant, personal discussions that I'd have every good intention of getting done probably would not get done without my using HOD. The Bible part is woven into virtually everything in a natural way in HOD. It's not just tacked on, like an extra subject. I feel that this immersion in Bible reflects what I want my dc to feel about the BIble - and our Lord Jesus Christ - that the Word and our Lord are a part of everything in life. Not just tacked on, on Sundays or at holidays, but a part of every day and how we live! I feel HOD helps me do that in a meaningful way that is doing amazing things to turn my dc hearts and minds to God on a daily basis! :D I'm going to post this on the other thread too, since I'm not sure if you'll see it here or there. God bless you as you decide what's best for you and your family!

In Christ,
Julie :D
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie

AboveRubiesMama
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by AboveRubiesMama » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:50 am

Thanks for the input. :)

I talked to DH about getting the Little Hands this year, but he says to wait until later to start it as we have a lot already adjusting to this new schedule of ours. And I plan to start his Kindergarten year the first week of July anyway.

I suppose I'm wondering, if they want him to have as close as possible to a typical K year, should I start off with Little Hearts? Or should I hold him back some and do the Little Hands, but add in some K workbooks? In some ways this would work out because I could include my 3rd child in the lessons, which would probably help him. But is Little Hands something that would be enough for him?

He has another evaluation coming up in January, in which we'll get another "developmental age" for him, so that could give us more info to go on as well.
Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. ~Proverbs 31:10

inHistiming
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by inHistiming » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:07 am

I don't have experience with the same things as you, so I'm not a lot of help. However, I think your 'typical' year depends a lot on the state in which you live. What are the K'er classes like where you live? I have chosen to use LHTH for my son's kindergarten year, simply because he's only 5 and we are not 'required' to do school with him until he's 6. Plus, he had not had any formal teahing yet, so I thought it would be a great start for him. Had he attended pre-k like my other 2 did, we probably would have begun with LHFHG. I think if you find out what is expected in Kindergarten where you live, you would be better able to decide which program to use. However, you could always do LHTH to start, and do 2 'lessons' a day, finishing it in half the time. This would still only be about an hour of work a day. Then, you could move into LHFHG and move at the 'normal' pace with it. There are lots of options. I hope I was at least a bit helpful. :?

AboveRubiesMama
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by AboveRubiesMama » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:51 pm

Well we do live in a testing state, but he won't have to test until 3rd grade, so honestly I can do whatever I want to do until then. But if he tests below a certain level, he'll need to go into school (at least that's what I hear from other parents).
Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. ~Proverbs 31:10

Carrie
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by Carrie » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:42 pm

AboveRubiesMama,

Thanks so much for your very thorough descriptions of your kiddos. It really helps us when giving advice to have a clear picture of your kiddos levels. :D

From what you've shared, it looks like Beyond will be a great placement for your 7 year old, most likely along with the Emerging Reader's Set. As far as the language arts goes, you can easily use CLE or the language arts in Beyond. You may find that the language arts scheduled in Beyond takes less time and covers the bases just as well, but you'll know better once you take a peek inside the Beyond guide. :wink:

As far as math goes, just use whatever's working and keep on going! :D

With your middle two kiddos, it does sound like they would do best in LHTH. I'm just not sure, based on what you've shared that your son is ready for the level of listening, reading material, and memory work done in LHFHG. While LHTH may not be the rigorous K program you are wishing your 5 year old could do, it is a solidly academic prepatory program that will prepare him with the needed skills to do a more formal K program the following year. While doing LHTH you could easily add some of the right side of LHFHG to up the requirements to meet his current level. You could add the Rod and Staff workbooks D and F, the K level of handwriting, and possibly even the K level of math. Then, you could do all of LHFHG the following year with him, using the 1st grade options. 8)

However, 6 months from now, things may look different. So, I would definitely assess again at that time. Kiddos can grow and change so much over the course of half a year!

The ladies on this board are doing an amazing job of helping you talk through options! I think so often of the way I can see Christ shining through them as they encourage, uplift, and direct others! Thanks ladies! :D

Blessings,
Carrie

AboveRubiesMama
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by AboveRubiesMama » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:05 pm

Thanks Carrie! Yes, I don't see him ready at all to do memorization! He can learn songs very quickly though, just not memorization. I'm considering using Sing, Spell, Read, and Write for him with phonics (as well as a computer phonics system, which is very colorful and fun!).

I'm not quite sure about the Singapore Math with him though and started another post about that. We'll see though. :)
Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. ~Proverbs 31:10

Marty D
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by Marty D » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:53 pm

AboveRubies,

Just wanted to mention something about testing. I am not sure what state you are in, but here in NC we have to test starting in 3rd grade also. My son has been diagnosed with a few things, and so I have been concerned with how the testing would go. Thankfully, God has given me a friend who is a counselor in the school system (talk about opposites, we are! LOL). She helped me make a plan of sorts, so that he has "permission" to have modifications to his testing (read aloud, write in book, etc). If your child is sn, you may want to talk to someone who knows about the testing (when that time comes) and see what you need to do. I know that sn kids in the ps system often have modifications to their testing, or even are excluded from testing all together. I know that is looking kind of far into the future, but just thought I would throw it out anyway!

As for my suggestion, I have to say that I think LHTH is such a great introduction for young ones to the alphabet and so on. Whatever you choose, HOD is a blessing!
Martha

Mom to 3 boys --Nathanael 8, Daniel 5, and Karsten 2

Carrie
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by Carrie » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:41 pm

Marty D. gave you some excellent advice on the testing! She is so right that we often had modifications allowed with testing s.n. kiddos in the public school. I don't think they allow exemptions from testing much anymore due to the "No child left behind" policy, but modifications are often allowed and noted. :D

As far as Sing, Spell, Read, and Write, your little honey may really enjoy it due to the singing. You'll want to really modify the amount of writing in that program though, as it comes with 2 thick workbooks, which were prohibitive to my doing it with my own boys. :D

Blessings,
Carrie

AboveRubiesMama
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by AboveRubiesMama » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:27 pm

Thanks Carrie. :) I'm still waiting to hear back from his OTR.

I think I'm going to try the A Reasong for Handwriting and then some of the Happy Phonics for his K year (just to give him some extra exposure).

Our state does require testing and unless he has an IEP on file with the state, he will not have any modifications. We gave the state a chance before switching to private therapy and it was amazing what happened when we switched--we have no intention of ever going back.

The only way he'll be exempt is if he is diagnosed with mental retardation.

There used to be some rule that if a child ever tested more than a year or so (I can't remember) behind, they HAD to attend school (I just leanred that this is no longer the case--yay!)

I've also been told that I can hire someone to privately administer the test right here in our home. Frankly I'm hoping that by the time he's in the 3rd grade, this will be a no-testing state.
Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. ~Proverbs 31:10

Carrie
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by Carrie » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:01 pm

AboveRubiesMama,

If you happen to have a college degree or your hubby does, you (or he) can administer the standardized test yourself in your home. You just need to register to be a test administrator through someone like Bob Jones University Press. That is who we do our standardized testing through (you can do either the Iowa Basic Skills Test or the Stanford). I know some other moms on this board do testing through other agencies as well. Anyway, just one other option that may work. :D

Blessings,
Carrie

water2wine
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Re: Need help choosing among the programs (esp. for SN Child)

Post by water2wine » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:12 pm

Just wanted to speak to the Special Needs issue and testing. I have one with CP and what I did was call HSLDA and the people that sold the test on the rules. Also asked my child what they did in ps. In my sate I was allowed to do the same. She was tested at the grade level I chose which is what we are actually calling her even though she reads lower and we were able to do it untimed. I simply noted on the test that it was not timed due to my child having special needs and let HLSDA know not to use her test results for their tally they are doing on hsing test results. I am happy to say she was able to test average on most things. This is above what she did in ps and I gave her no help and in math she did better. But the key was to not have it timed for her. HTH. :D

I believe the law is if your child would have had an IEP in ps you are allowed to give the same consideration in test taking that they would have in ps.

ETA- Now to answer your original question. My advice would be to keep your children in separate programs especially being that they are close in age. I have two that are 3 months apart but one is bright and ahead of herself and one that has special needs. For things they can comprehend with in the same range I have them together and things that are not close they are very separate. For my dd this means Math and LA so I make those things separate and the program the same. However they are older (both almost 11) if I were starting out like your ages I would have done completely different programs in fact when we put them in ps we pushed one ahead just to have separate grade levels. It's very important the comparing is fatal to learning. So from what you have said about yours I would do beyond with the older and perhaps LHFHG for the younger but run it at half speed taking two years and fill in the extra time to work on the weak areas for your child which I will guess might be reading and Math.

Also just want to encourage you that your description of your child is very similar to mine at that age we did OT, PT and Speech 3-5 x a week depending on where she was at but hitting about 10 hours or so a week total therapy time and she was very far behind. I want you to know that as they get older those times go down and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We no longer have OT and speech and PT is off and on now. You do get your life back eventually. Hang in there! :D
All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children. Isaiah 54:13
~Six lovies from God~4 by blessing of adoption
-MTMM (HS), Rev to Rev, CTC, DITHR
We LOVED LHFHG/Beyond/Bigger/Preparing/CTC/RTR/Rev to Rev (HS)

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