Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

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Mom2Monkeys
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Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Thu May 19, 2016 3:56 pm

How might one make HOD work for an older child with these issues? I am very familiar with HOD but not with dysgraphia and such. He also has sensory issues. They happen to primarily be in the visual, oral, and auditory areas but affect many other areas too. This is all new Dx. I've changed him from HOD because of struggles only to find the same issues in every type of program we've tried. The visual sensory stuff means looking at a page full or words makes it tough to follow and comprehend. Auditory aruff means reading aloud isn't as effective as one would hope so it doesn't help make up for the visual stuff. Writing is not only physically difficult, but getting the letters and words from his brain down to paper is tough. Same for typing. He misspells simple words (my might come up as mi). Copywork is challenging because transferring the words from there to writing is hard. If we call out letters for him to write, and tell him which case to write in, he actually has to think about it. Same if he's writing the alphabet in order. He can read well and has the phonics skills. But processing it .... Narrating is not easy. Answering questions about it is a challenge. If the same words aren't used in the question as in the text/answer, he can't seem to connect that it's still related even when it's obvious. But gI've him a non fiction book with short snippets spread about and sectioned out well, and he can read much more difficult text, answer questions, narrate, retain.... I'm at a loss as to how to make school work for him. At all. I've found a great math for him, but how do I make HOD work? Reading text or literature, copy work, dictation, narrarions, etc....
He's vey smart and can do the level of thinking required for a higher level than these issues allow for. Intelligence would place him at maybe RTR but these things would hold him back in Bigger or PHFHG. He has big dreams for his future and I don't want to hold him back.
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

rumkimom
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by rumkimom » Sun May 22, 2016 5:44 am

My daughter (almost 15) has many learning issues....Expressive-receptive language disorder and is mildly autistic (PPD). She has lots of problems with comprehension, reading and writing (also as she puts it "I can't get it out"). This year (9th grade) she is doing RtR and it has been a struggle for her, but she is doing it. It will take another 1/2 a school year to finish up the guide. We do things at her level including the writing and dictation (less is expected). Overall she is doing well and has learned a lot this year. Things went much slower than I expected (had hoped that she could finish up the guide in 1 year but instead it will take 18 months).
----
Wendy C.
DH-Owen
Emily (19 - graduatated from UCC spring 2018, Fashion Design Program)
Melody (17 - Rev 2 Rev-unit 21, IEW for writing, grammar, completed math)
Steven (12 - CTC, IEW for writing, grammar, spelling, TT Math)
Clarence (10 - PS)

my3sons
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by my3sons » Sun May 22, 2016 5:26 pm

HI Tamara - it is good to hear from you! When the Lord brings you and your family to my mind, I still pray for you. Thanks for sharing about your son, and it sounds like you are figuring out much about him that helps make sense of some of the past triumphs and struggles. I have taken much encouragement and insight from some of the ladies on this board who have dc with needs such as you have described your son as having. It has especially been a pleasure and inspiration for me to read about LynnH's son going through middle school and now high school with HOD. She does a weekly post on her blog about HOD that is full of details and pictures about how she is enjoying HOD WH with her son. She has done this for many years, so you could spend literally a day enjoying that peek into HOD in her home. Her posts would be very helpful for you as you ponder what to do with your son moving forward. Another poster I've gleaned much wisdom and encouragement from is Imercon (Laura). She has also shared what is working for her and her son moving forward with the guides. I am going to post some of their threads below, but you can also just click on their board name and search for more...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17037&p=118935#p118935
viewtopic.php?t=12416
http://graceandfur.blogspot.com/2016/05 ... -2016.html
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17082&p=119172#p119172
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16958&p=118536#p118536
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16945&p=118513#p118513
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10386
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16916&p=118403#p118403
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16802&p=117814#p117814
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15792&p=111576#p111576

I know you are a born researcher, Tamara, so I wanted to mention that these posts are just some of the ones I found I thought may help, but there are many other moms that share excellent advice on these threads that you could click on their board names and read more (i.e. jennymommy, Gwenny, chillin'inandover). After reading through some of these, I think you may have some ideas about how you want to approach placement. I think you may have a few of these ladies that you just click with in their decisions about placement - basically, how much weight in your placement decision to give to maturity of content of a guide, to how much writing/reading etc. in a guide, to how much time you have to devote to helping, to how much independence you want to have your son have, etc. Then, I'd love to hear more about the specifics of your son with the placement chart in mind, as well as what he's been doing recently in each subject area. :D

In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI, RevtoRev
Wife to Rich for 24 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 20, 16, and 13
Author of Women's Devotional https://www.ebay.com/itm/293355757184
Blogger https://my3sons-julie.blogspot.com/
Sister to Carrie

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Mon May 23, 2016 10:49 am

Thank you so much! I'm going to go through all these links and the info shared and get back to you.
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Sun May 29, 2016 6:40 pm

Here's what my husband and Ibhavw come.up with.

We will have DS12 "teach" PHFHG to DS9. He can read more challenging material, but he had to expend so much energy to attend that he doesn't retain. This seems like a comfortable level for him to push his limits a touch but not too much, still learn valuable skills, and keep the shorter readings and writings that will allow him to spend his energies learning. He will do the I boxes as-is and then lead the T/S boxes for himself and his brother. He likes to feel smart and in charge so this should sit well with him, and boost his confidence. His job as he will understand will be to model the skills for his brother (since I don't want him to feel like he's at the same level as his younger sibling). Then, dad wants him.to do two short, typed papers each week (a few sentences to a short paragraph) to up the challenge and help him learn to type, plus help him get his thoughts on paper. He will have him research online on science and history topics in addition to what is in the guide.

In additon, I will probably try to find some.of the Dianne Craft materials to add on each day. He will be doing OT weekly with an at home plan as well to help with his physical needs plus the sensory and auditory processing issues. (All five kids will be doing multiple therapies. Heaven help me!)

Oh, DH says drop grammar lessons for now (they don't make sense or stick for this kiddo). He wants to use his papers each week to correct spelling issues and point out grammar stuff for now. But wants the focus on writing and reading with grammar to come.back into the plan much later.

Is this a reasonable plan? If therapies and other helps make a big improvement, could we skip some guides later to get h.closer to grade level? He will be in 7th this fall.
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

Nealewill
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Nealewill » Sun May 29, 2016 8:53 pm

Have you ever considered doing things from two different guides? I did read your thoughts and I have found it challenging to tweak skills from the guides in my own way. I always create way more work and not necessarily greater results. I did it last year with my youngest because she completed Beyond when she was 5 and then went down to Little Hearts for her last year when she turned 6. It tweak some stuff with Little Hearts to match up to skills but ultimately ended up following the guide more closely by the end of the year because it turned into a mess. Then this year I was pushing my son (who also has auditory processing disorder) and trying to have him do Preparing while his younger sister did Bigger and found that I kept having to modify assignments in little ways to match his abilities. By November I had a melt down and quit Preparing. I put him down in Bigger with his younger sister and only let him keep Science from Preparing along with continuing on with spelling and math. Other than that, he pretty much repeated all of Bigger. It went well too. I was glad that I did. It was obvious that the vocabulary and language from some of the books in Preparing was challenging for him. He was struggling with orally narrating the longer readings. His spelling was atrocious. I had to help him word for word with the written narrations. And he couldn't draw any of the pictures from the Draw through History book without tracing paper. Half the time, he couldn't even read the instructions to know what he was supposed to do from the guide without my help. It was discouraging for me and was a huge time suck. I was worried about placing him a lower guide because I was worried that I might be holding him back. But honestly, it was the best thing I could have done.

My son's disabilities don't sound quite as significant as yours but if it were me, I would probably have him do most of the boxes for Preparing as is with the exception of doing math, spelling, and science. Since you don't want to hold him back, I would pick the science from RevtoRev and I would help him with it. That might mean that you read it to him if you need to. It also might means that you have sit with him as he does this work. This is really the only thing that HOD has prescribed as an "I" activity that you are doing as a "T" or "S". You can also decide whether or not to include the inventor's study. If you would prefer to skip the inventor's study, you could always do the advanced version instead of the intermediate. But if you do the inventor's study, I would definitely just do the intermediate. My dd is going to be doing RevtoRev next year and some readings are longer and some shorter with that study. However, if he can read at a higher level and you want him to continue working on this, doing the study may be a great opportunity for him to practice that. In addition, I know you mentioned he doesn't understand grammar. I would have him do the level 3 book. It is very gentle. And I think it teaches some good skills. There is writing included in there as well. I would have him do the poetry writing each week. If it were me, even though it would save you time, I would also read the "T" boxes out loud to both kids. I would not have your 12 year old teach the 9 year old. I am sorry if this sounds harsh or if you feel like I don't understand. The reason that I would read it to the 12 year old instead of having him read it out loud to the 9 year old is because listening to you orally read something and then comprehend it is a skill you mentioned he still struggles with it. Believe me, I get it. My son struggles too. Sometimes I feel like I am going to lose my mind because it drives me bonkers. However, in life, he is going to need to be able to conquer this skill. If he listens to you read the story time books, this history text from Preparing, and any other T boxes, he will continue to get lots of practice with this.

I do think that it can be stressful having a child with special needs. I know it stresses me out! My girls are on the youngest end of the age range and my son is out in left field feeling leaving me feeling like he is being left behind. Truth be told, he doesn't "feel" like this. He knows he has APD. He goes to therapy. He doesn't understand things and that is one thing they are helping him with at therapy specifically - showing to recognize that he doesn't understand. This has been a huge! But in general, I feel like the history, writing and grammar are very multi age resources. So doing lower levels of those aren't a big deal. Because he is delayed in language, pushing him too hard will frustrate him. It will create an even broader divide from where he is to where you want him to be. And it isn't your fault that he needs to be in a lower level! I used to feel so much guilt about my son's disability and frustrated that he couldn't do what his sisters can do. Even now, there some things his younger sister does better. Luckily, God created us all uniquely so there are things he does better too. It may not be school related but he is valued and has things he excels at. If it were me, this is how I would see your son's school schedule panning out possibly:

7th grade - Preparing for everything as is except for science, spelling and math. Science I would RevtoRev. I think the reading and thinking for all other things in Preparing will be plenty of a challenge for him. I would do DITHOR and I would use the level 4-5 book for him and only do 5 genres. I would choose titles that he can understand well and that are his level. I know the writing in Preparing may not be traditional for a student his age but I do think this style of writing is freeing and can really help in the long run build a strong foundation for writing in the future. I also think that in this level, it sets the tone for written narrations. Without doing these in Preparing, I do think your son may struggle in future levels since written narrations are done in each level and in longer lengths the higher the level. For grammar, since you said he struggles, I would start with R&S 3. I personally would not skip it. This means that he will only finish up through half of R&S 7 but I think that is fine. I think by the time he finishes school, he will be very well off. In addition, this will save you some time since you will be teaching R&S 3 to both the 9 year old and the 12 year old. And I would include a typing program in this year. That way by 8th grade he can start typing up some of the assignments.
8th grade - CtC for everything except science, spelling and math. I would do the science from MtMM for this level. The nice thing about this level is that the writing resource (Write with the Best) is geared toward kids in grades 3 - 12. Doing the writing in Preparing is a nice prep for leading into this writing program. I would do R&S 4 this year at half speed as the guide prescribes. There is writing in this level and I don't think the speed of the writing and grammar will be overwhelming. I would finish the level 4-5 DITHOR book this year with this child and do the other 4 genres.
9th grade - RtR for everything except science, spelling and math. I would start to add in high school electives at this point in his education. I might also start to skip some stuff in the guide as well to make time for them. I would add in science from the WG guide and I would include Logic and Spanish. At this point you could also decide if you felt that your son needed to complete the extensions to receive full credit. Since your son has a disability, doing RtR as is for history may be sufficient. There are a lot of activities listed in the guide for story time and those activities may serve you best anyway because it would help him work on his auditory attentions. I do know that the writing in RtR has two levels. The advanced level may need to be completed to receive high school credit for writing unless you feel that he spends enough time on the lower level. I do think that even with his disability, doing the advanced level of writing would be doable by 9th grade. I would do DITHOR 6,7,8 and pick titles that felt like were high school level. I would plan to complete all 9 genres this year. However, since you are going to have the high school guide, you could decide if you felt that reading level has increased enough and could use the literature portion of the WG guide at this time instead. Even if you chose to do the WG lit, I would not do the writing or grammar from the WG guide. I would stick with the plans in the RtR guide for those subjects. But if you chose DITHOR, then I would not do any "end of the book projects" and would have your child plan to read DITHOR every day so that they can finish the books within the school year. I would skip the Bible Study box in this level because I think your son would find it a bit immature. I would have your son complete the book Rooted and Grounded from WG as well. This is really the first year that you are going to be relying heavily on both guides.
10th grade - RevtoRev for everything except science, spelling and math. I would do the science from WH along with Old Testament Survey, Health and Foreign language. I would not complete the fine arts for this year because I would save it for the end. And for times sake, I would probably skip the fifty state study if you have already done something in this area along with the music study and the Bible Study book(s). I would not skip the Signers study and I would consider addition in the extensions if he can do them and add in the American Testimony DVDs even if he can't (this is included in the extension package). I would do R&S 5 this year and I would use the Creative Writing included. The writing is multi age and I think your son would enjoy it. The only other thing I would consider adding in would be the government study that is completed in in the US1 guide. I would consider doing both items or only one. This would get you government credit and would align with this time period. For literature, you could choose the lit in WH or you can do DITHOR again with age appropriate titles. Either way, your child will have a great year.
11th grade - MtMM as is except science, spelling and math. I would do science from US1. I would also substitute Bible study and use New Testament survey from US1 instead. I would skip the state study if you aren't required to complete it. And because of time, I would consider skipping the nature study as well. It looks lovely but your son will have a lot of other things to focus on. The writing for this level is great as is and you could decide to do DITHOR or the literature for US1. I would add in Economics from US2 guide in this level. I would also consider whether or not your son could handle the extensions. If so, I would include them all. If not, then I would include the American Testimony DVDs Set 2 at a minimum. And I would plan to complete R&S 6 this year.
12th grade - WG as is except I would change out electives, science, math and spelling. I would complete the fine arts from WH this year. I would do the speech from US 2 this year along with the Bible Study & foreign language from that guide. I would complete 1/2 of R&S 7 and do the writing from the WG guide this year. As for literature, if you didn't start the lit yet for the guide, then I would start it. If you did, then I would complete the lit from the final US2 guide. I would also finish out the final science from the US 2 guide.

If you feel like your son is ready to graduate, then you have achieve all of the credits that you need. If you feel like your son isn't ready to graduate, you could have a super senior year still. My husband and I will make a decision about our son once he finishes 7th grade as to whether or not we plan to have him complete a super senior year. There are pros and cons to it. Because his language is delayed, having an extra year at home may be of tremendous benefit to him. However, because kids with auditory processing disorder tend to eventually "catch up," it may not be needed. If you feel like your son could benefit from a super senior year, you could always do a half year and include the writing, 2nd half of R&S 7, along with the history from WH. If you already completed the Literature from the WH guide, then I might not do any lit study. If you didn't, then I would consider completing it. The nice thing about this super senior year is that it is you are only completing it help grow his language skills for one more year. You would technically already have all of his credits complete and would only really do this because you felt like he wasn't ready for the reading, analysis, and writing that would be required of him in college.

I know I typed a lot and I probably forgot some things. I may be off base from what you are thinking but I am hoping that what I typed up might be helpful as a starting basis for a plan. I do hope something helped. And I hope you don't feel like my thoughts were slam on your plan. I just know from my experience with my own son, that when I try to work around a skill he struggles with or push him ways that don't line up with the guide, it seems like I don't actually make the headway like I was hoping. Because these are skills he struggles with already, I find it unlikely that he will start skipping ahead in guides. This is the part he is already hurting on and the reason I am in a lower guide. By following the guides to a T in this area seem to me to give him his best advantage of overcoming that tough skill.
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Mon May 30, 2016 10:36 pm

I had a detailed response for you and now it's all gone! For now I just want to say thank you so much for your thoughtful and insightful comments. I really appreciate it! I'm going to let it all soak in and do some pondering and research. We will see this son's OT Thursday and she's suggesting to a SLP there to evaluate him for dyslexia to determine if the dyslexic-like issues are that or are the characteristics of the reflex and sensory integration disorder, dysgraphia, and auditory processing disorder combined. She's going to set us up with some things to do at home and then I'll go from there, with great considerations to your ideas!
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

Nealewill
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:08 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Nealewill » Tue May 31, 2016 6:35 am

You are most welcome. Praying it all goes well with the therapies.

And...I have lost my comments before as well because somehow I have selected the text in the whole box and then typed over it, losing all of the words and such. Not sure if that happened to you or not. When I do that, I found out that I can right click in the box and hit the undo button. I may have to hit it a couple of times. But I can get back all of my words. If you accidentally left the page, I don't know how to recover that. But if you stayed on the page and somehow delete the text from the box, I do know that the undo works to recover that. It is frustrating no matter what!!!!
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

StephanieU
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by StephanieU » Tue May 31, 2016 9:18 am

Nealewill wrote:You are most welcome. Praying it all goes well with the therapies.

And...I have lost my comments before as well because somehow I have selected the text in the whole box and then typed over it, losing all of the words and such. Not sure if that happened to you or not. When I do that, I found out that I can right click in the box and hit the undo button. I may have to hit it a couple of times. But I can get back all of my words. If you accidentally left the page, I don't know how to recover that. But if you stayed on the page and somehow delete the text from the box, I do know that the undo works to recover that. It is frustrating no matter what!!!!
Mom to 4
DD (12) Rev2Rev (completed LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CtC, and RtR)
DS (10) CtC (completed LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, and Preparing plus some of LHTH)
DD (8) Bigger (completed LHTH, LHFHG, and Beyond)
DS (3) Starting LHTH soon!

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Tue May 31, 2016 11:40 am

This time I lost it because of web error! Lol
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

Nealewill
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:08 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Nealewill » Tue May 31, 2016 12:25 pm

Mom2Monkeys wrote:This time I lost it because of web error! Lol
So frustrating!!!!
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

Gwenny
Posts: 750
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Gwenny » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:42 am

If I'm writing a long post, every once in awhile I highlight everything and do 'command c' like I was going to copy and paste it somewhere. That holds it just in case things get lost. :) It is so frustrating.
Nancy
Dd29 married (w/2 sons 1/2/14, 5/24/16), ds27, dd25 married (w/dd born 8/9/16), dd25, dd22
Dd 19 HS in special ed
Dd14 RevtoRev
Ds12 RevtoRev
Ds 9 Preparing
Dd 5 LHFHG

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: Middle-High schoolers w/Dysgraphia & Auditory Processing

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:26 am

We've been doing PHFHG with both since I wrote about it just so I could see how it went. He's now enjoying school, learning, finishing in a reasonable time, gaining confidence, and even improving!!! I think it is less overwhelming so he's able to focus on getting it done better and is able to do copywork, vocabulary, etc better than expected. The competition of having brother alongside him helps tremendously. And it doesn't bother younger if older does better or finishes faster because he should...he's older!
I will add in more for him as his abilities and comfort level grow. I don't want to "reward" a job well done with more work. So I'll hold off a bit. It's summer anyway. ;)

I read the history and storytime to them. One of them reads any scriptures that go with either. Older leads the Bible study box. I lead the poetry writing on day 2 but older would really like to so he starts without me at times! He isn't doing grammar at the moment but we will at some point during the guide. I think maybe I'll add in essentials in writing a couple times a week to cover the grammar and bump up the writing (when I start adding things) since that is something used later in and something I have for his grade already on my shelf. That way I can do the writing as is for future guides rather than borrowing from the now. He's set with CTCmath and Visible Thinking (singapore supplement). And I'm deciding on what to do about spelling/reading. Dictation is good for him but he needs explicit teaching on top of that. I have AAS2 but also considering SYS. The visual appeal of that clicks with me and might suit him well since he has the "does it look right" mentality. But, he needs help figuring out what looks right. DITHOR had too much writing to add on for him. He's been doing BJUReading but we are shifting into a thrift store find of Words Aptly Spoken and using a book that's grabbed his attention!- Narnia! This is going well! If I had time to let him dictate to me for DITHOR, I'd do that. But I just don't have that time. Maybe next year he can use it on his own as planned in the guide.

I think I've covered all my bases and it's going so well, and I still somehow feel like it isn't enough! I do plan to bring in some extension books and add more for science later. I guess it must be that mama guilt and doubt we all feel somwtimes!
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

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