Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

This is where new posts begin. All questions or discussions about any of Heart of Dakota's curriculums start here. If you wish to share a one-time post about your family's experience with our curriculum, you may post under the specific curriculum title (found beneath this "Main Board" heading).
renee
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 am
Location: Florida

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by renee » Thu May 14, 2015 2:45 pm

Thank you!

renee
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 am
Location: Florida

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by renee » Thu May 14, 2015 5:46 pm

I wish I could see what the Bigger narration extension assignments looked like. I know he comfortably places in Bigger. Adding the 2/3 workbook and narration extension work may provide that challenge that I am looking for.

I do think I could go half speed with Preparing and eventually come to a place where he would flow smoothly. The science looks doable. The 4th day science notebook will be the challenge for him. He currently reads his Abeka science by himself. Writing out the answers will be something he is not use to.

The Draw and Write Through History is something he cannot do. He is still learning basic cursive formation and just starting writing cursive words. Even if he recently mastered cursive, I cannot see him coping all of that. That would be a huge meltdown!

I noticed there are days when history independent readings fall on the same day as science readings. I think that would take a lot for him to do. I think he would grow into it maybe towards the later part of the school year, but I think it would be torture in the beginning for him.

Still trying to get a feel for the poetry in Preparing. Day 2 copywork of Poetry will be something that will take a while to grow into.

The whole narration/dictation is something we have worked on, but not enough. He dictates to me and I write it on the board. He then copies it down. Three sentences is his limit. We just started this process recently. He does do short narrations after he reads for me. He uses complete sentences and has a good understanding of what is going on in the story.


Preparing will give me that push I need to get him moving with writing. He will not be comfortable in it. It will take some time.

The good thing is I have Preparing from a friend, and I ordered the Bigger TM.

I guess I need some more time to sort it out. I feel like I am going in circles! Sorry if I repeated a lot of things. If you have any more thoughts, I would love to hear them. I do love both programs!

Renee

MomtoJGJE
Posts: 1534
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:20 pm
Location: Gastonia, NC

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by MomtoJGJE » Fri May 15, 2015 6:26 am

Are you planning on starting now or waiting until the fall?

MomtoJGJE
Posts: 1534
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:20 pm
Location: Gastonia, NC

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by MomtoJGJE » Fri May 15, 2015 6:47 am

Ok I just reread the thread and saw where you said something about starting in July.

What if you worked on copywork and reading between now and then? Get him writing more and reading more pages on his own.

Then if he hasn't gotten to where you think he could do half the work each day in Preparing, just do Bigger and work him up to the amount of independence needed in Preparing. If he has strengthened in these areas a significant amount, you can start him half speed in Preparing while continuing to build him up.

Either program is a great program. He fits the age range for both, even though he'd turn 10 in March. If you start in July you would be very close to done with Bigger by then anyway.

Honestly I think you both would be happy with Bigger. Ever since I made the mistake of going up to the higher guide when my oldest placed between two guides on the placement chart I've always suggested that if they fit between two guides, go down to the lower guide. You can always add more if he just blossoms this year (which you will probably see happen!) but even if you don't add more it's a wonderful guide!

renee
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 am
Location: Florida

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by renee » Fri May 15, 2015 6:55 am

That is a great idea! Thank you for helping me sort through this.

I am still leaning towards Bigger. I do not think he has the maturity and discipline to tackle Preparing. I am partly to blame because I did not push writing/copywork this year. My 6th grader required a lot of my attention this year (ADHD).

I will work over the summer on copy work and building his reading stamina. Even if he is not ready for Preparing a the end of the summer, I think he will benefit from doing Bigger. I guess it would be easier to beef up a program rather than take away from it. Also we will be completing that last half of R&S 3 in 4th grade. Most of the writing assignments are in the last half. That will be good for him.

I am guessing the science will be enough for a 4th grader. We do the IOWA test, but it is not a requirement in our state. It is just for my benefit. I hate piecing things together. I love doing things "as written." I am a box checker and not very creative with adding things in. I get overwhelmed!

I will be attending the Florida FPEA convention next week. I am hoping HOD will be there.

If anyone else wants to chime in with their thoughts, please do so!

Renee

Jennymommy
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by Jennymommy » Fri May 15, 2015 9:57 am

In looking ahead, he may be hitting MTMM in 9th grade if he is doing Bigger in fourth. This is something else to consider as you say you are a box checker :) You can add to MTMM to make it credit worthy for highschool, and there are several helpful posts about that....it's a ways off though. Just something to consider. I sure don't want to stir up the coals of worry, but your last post mentioned your concern about adding to or being creative in adjusting curriculum.

renee
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 am
Location: Florida

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by renee » Fri May 15, 2015 11:04 am

Yes. That is one my concerns. I am a long term planner and need to see the big picture. I want to enjoy the plans laid out for me in the future guides without worrying about tweaking anything. I know that would be the "ideal" situation for me, but I don't know if that is the way it will play out.

That is something I am definitely taking into consideration.

Thank you,

Renee

Gwenny
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:07 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by Gwenny » Fri May 15, 2015 4:57 pm

I would say not to worry about what will happen in several years, place them where they are best now. :)
Nancy
Dd29 married (w/2 sons 1/2/14, 5/24/16), ds27, dd25 married (w/dd born 8/9/16), dd25, dd22
Dd 19 HS in special ed
Dd14 RevtoRev
Ds12 RevtoRev
Ds 9 Preparing
Dd 5 LHFHG

renee
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 am
Location: Florida

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by renee » Fri May 15, 2015 5:48 pm

Thank you :D

twolittlebears
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: North Idaho

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by twolittlebears » Sat May 16, 2015 1:23 am

I thought I would add in my thoughts, as I was in your exact shoes a week or two ago! My son is an exact replica of yours! 9.5 yo going into 4th, strong reader, reluctant writer, just learning cursive etc. I went back and forth between Bigger and Preparing as well. My best friend's son also is the exact same age, same situation, did part of Bigger this year and will pick it back up in the fall. That being said, I chose Bigger for my son! We did the first week by printing off the first sample week, and it was still a little challenge with looking up and writing down vocabulary words, writing the Bible verse, spelling words, history notebook page and science page! That was a lot more than I've required him to do, so I knew Preparing would be setting him up for frustration this year. I am so happy I chose Bigger! So if you do go with Bigger, there are other mamas that will be schooling 10yo boys in that guide too! I've had my son on a slower writing pace, and that has been my choice. Now we are ready to go full steam ahead! I just want my son to be successful and love to learn! If he has a jump in learning, then I will add in the extensions and beef up the copywork, no problem! As far as the books go, they are perfect for a 10 yo boy! Engaging and right on target, I think. We took this past year off from HOD, after doing Beyond. We are now back and need this year to work on our skills before Preparing. I want to encourage you, that if you feel like Bigger is the best choice for him, then follow that! I was combing the forum looking for other moms that had used Bigger for 4th without much luck...now it seems there are a few more moms leaning that way as well. I felt I was needing confirmation that it was ok to do Bigger for an almost 10yo. Bigger is exactly where my son places, I could push him in Preparing, but it would be a tough year. I'm determined for my son to have beautiful cursive handwriting and love it, and by golly we're gonna get there...eventually! :D Let us know what you end up doing!
Married to my best friend 18 years
DS 10yo CTC (finished: MFWK, SL Core A, LHFHG, Delectable Ed, PHFHG)
DS 13yo CTC w/extensions (finished: WP Animal Worlds, MFW1, SL Core B, BLHFHG, BHFHG, Delectable Ed, PHFHG)

renee
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:35 am
Location: Florida

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by renee » Sat May 16, 2015 4:17 am

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement! I actually was reading one of your posts yesterday and felt your story was very similar to mine, too! I actually said to myself, " I hope she sees my posts and responds." When I saw this morning that you responded to one of my posts, I felt that was the confirmation I was looking for! It's amazing how God works!

Bigger really does look like it will be a good fit for him. I think it will be just what he needs. Thank you again.

Renee

Gwenny
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:07 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by Gwenny » Sat May 16, 2015 6:45 am

My son is on unit 16 and he is 10.5. He's a very reluctant writer and also slow reader. He's grown so much over the year. I started with him doing 1 vocab word and then after 10 units we went to two. He's doing all three words now and it's takes him the same amount of time it took to do the one at the beginning of the year! I did the same gradual build-up with all of the other writing as well. He loves all of the books, does great at narrating. I know that the books in Preparing would have not been "over his head" at all because he's very intelligent-a deep thinker. BUT, he wouldn't have been able to do the independent reading or do the writing and we both would've been frustrated with trying to make him able to do it. I'm totally confident that he will be ready for it all when he gets to Preparing. He will be able to do it as written which will be a joy for both of us and then he'll be ready for the next guides! I LOVE HOD!! :)
Nancy
Dd29 married (w/2 sons 1/2/14, 5/24/16), ds27, dd25 married (w/dd born 8/9/16), dd25, dd22
Dd 19 HS in special ed
Dd14 RevtoRev
Ds12 RevtoRev
Ds 9 Preparing
Dd 5 LHFHG

Nealewill
Posts: 1611
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:08 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by Nealewill » Sat May 16, 2015 6:52 am

renee wrote:I wish I could see what the Bigger narration extension assignments looked like. I know he comfortably places in Bigger. Adding the 2/3 workbook and narration extension work may provide that challenge that I am looking for.

I do think I could go half speed with Preparing and eventually come to a place where he would flow smoothly. The science looks doable. The 4th day science notebook will be the challenge for him. He currently reads his Abeka science by himself. Writing out the answers will be something he is not use to.

The Draw and Write Through History is something he cannot do. He is still learning basic cursive formation and just starting writing cursive words. Even if he recently mastered cursive, I cannot see him coping all of that. That would be a huge meltdown!

I noticed there are days when history independent readings fall on the same day as science readings. I think that would take a lot for him to do. I think he would grow into it maybe towards the later part of the school year, but I think it would be torture in the beginning for him.

Still trying to get a feel for the poetry in Preparing. Day 2 copywork of Poetry will be something that will take a while to grow into.

The whole narration/dictation is something we have worked on, but not enough. He dictates to me and I write it on the board. He then copies it down. Three sentences is his limit. We just started this process recently. He does do short narrations after he reads for me. He uses complete sentences and has a good understanding of what is going on in the story.


Preparing will give me that push I need to get him moving with writing. He will not be comfortable in it. It will take some time.

The good thing is I have Preparing from a friend, and I ordered the Bigger TM.

I guess I need some more time to sort it out. I feel like I am going in circles! Sorry if I repeated a lot of things. If you have any more thoughts, I would love to hear them. I do love both programs!

Renee
In reading all of this, I do think you will be much happier doing Bigger. My son did it this year and it has been an amazing year! You mentioned in Preparing that you noticed that some days he would have to read something for Independent History and then something Science. Actually, most days he would be reading something from both. Preparing does have a lot more reading than Bigger. Plus, with Bigger, your son doesn't have to do the extensions. He is 9 years old and the age range for Bigger is 7-9. So he would be in the non-extension age range. That being said, I did use some of the extensions for story time this year for my son. I read them out loud to him. And they do have a fairly high reading level. The guide says they are geared toward mid 4th through upper 6th grade reading level. There were a few that I think my dd read last summer with no problem. But some of them would be challenging for her to read now and she is 10. You really don't have to include the extensions for it to be a great year. I would pray about that.

And I do think that you will be very happy with Bigger. It will very much prepare your son for all of the work in Preparing. I would just be sensitive to the volume of writing your son can do this year. I would start off as slow as he needs and then gradually help him get to the point that he can do each assignment each day without taking a break. My son doesn't necessarily like to write or read but he is doing his work quickly and well. He loves it. He never complains now. To be honestly, he never really complained about anything other than vocabulary at first. That was really hard for him. And I would very much say that the volume of writing and reading toward the end of Bigger that my son is doing now (he reads all of science to himself and sometimes history as well) is very comparable to what he will be doing next year in Preparing, possibly even more. Don't get me wrong, Preparing will have a few new challenges for him - written narrations, creative writing and the independent history projects - but at least everything won't be new. For that, I am so grateful that he is doing Bigger working toward these areas. My son is so different from my girls and he definitely needs more encouragement and more handholding. He is truly my poster child for "going at his pace."

I am also surprised how quickly my son has risen to the challenge of doing school with HOD. He actually has a learning disability - auditory processing disorder - and using HOD has really helped with this. It helps me to set expectations and uses a very logical flow to increase his skills in a balanced way. But again, I just go at his pace. Also, one last thing I think that has helped us tremendously is having a manual that states what to do. If the manual says do it, he does it. He might not like it. And at the beginning of the year we had a few melt downs. But we stuck with what the manual says and we rarely have melt downs now. Any melt downs during school time usually aren't really because of school. It is because had a rough night sleep the night before, we are off schedule, or something outside of school has put him into a funk. Other than that, he has a really good attitude about the work laid before him. I know that if I did this alone, my day would not be nearly so smooth nor as productive :-) Plus, I do think it is wise to place a child where they will thrive. It sounds like Bigger is perfect for your son. It will give him areas to grow in and he will feel very accomplished. I know you may be worried about having him be on the oldest end of the age range but my oldest dd has snuck in and listen to several of the books I have read with my son this year. They are very interesting. And I have learned some things myself. Most of the science activities are just fascinating and very engaging. My oldest has participate when she can, provided she is on a break or finished with her own school work. It has truly been a great year! I do hope you love it too.
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

LovingJesus
Posts: 331
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:29 am

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by LovingJesus » Sat May 16, 2015 7:54 am

renee wrote:Hello. I was wondering if someone could confirm for me my placement decision. I have a child who will be 9 1/2 yrs. old going into 4th grade. He is reading 4th grade level books, but he likes to read in small doses (7 pages). I would not say he is a fast reader, but he does comprehend what he is reading. His end of the year test results were right on target. For grammer, we have worked through half of Rod and Staff 3/orally. We have completed Spelling Workout C. For math we use Teaching Textbooks 3, and we have already started the 4th grade level this summer. For cursive we have been working slowly through A Reason For Handwriting. We are still working on cursive letter formation and writing words in cursive, but he cannot write a full sentence in cursive,yet. My big issue is the writing involved in Preparing. He is a reluctant writer, but can form a solid sentence. We have practiced small paragraph writing (3 sentences long). He pretty much complains through the whole thing, but can write a decent sentence. He dictates the sentences to me, and I write it on the board. He then copies it down. My concern is two or three sentences seems to be his limit. He writes neat and copies accurately, but I am not sure how he will react to the copywork in Preparing. I want to make sure this is just not me wanting to have an "easier" year! LOL!

Do you think we should start with Preparing? I would greatly appreciate any advice!

Thank you,

Renee
Hi Renee! I haven't read all of the responses, which are numerous. It seems like you have been getting a lot of help in this area! :D

It looks though like over all you are leaning towards Bigger.

Please, take my response knowing I am only responding to your initial post and some of your other posts following it, and only glancing at the rest of it. So I am really responding only to what you have written.

Based on what you have written above I would put him in Preparing. I think the writing in HOD can look much more intimidating coming in then it actually is in practice, if that makes sense. I know I struggled with that placing my children. In fact, I placed my oldest too low and so part of my thoughts on this come from that experience with the writing in HOD.

It looks to me like in grammar he is 1/2 way through Preparing. In cursive he is about 1/2 way or 3/4 through Bigger. For writing, with his 3 sentence paragraph writing, he looks ready for Preparing written narrations. For reading he looks like Preparing level.

For reading he looks like he is on target to do Preparing. One thing to take into consideration as well is that the first independent reading box in Preparing isn't actually reading. It is doing the Draw and Write through History book. I know my second son, who loves to draw, really enjoyed it immensely. The hardest part about that book is copying a paragraph written in cursive. The thing to remember with HOD is a skill like that at the beginning of a guide is one that you want to master by the end of the guide. So if they need some help, early on, reading the cursive or copying a paragraph then the goal is to be able to do so by the end of the guide. :)

Another thing I would consider is at 9 1/2 he will actually be at the oldest end of the Preparing age range 1/2 way through Preparing, and out of the age range of Bigger 1/2 way through the guide. You could add extensions, but it sounds to me like you really want to do the program as written. It just sounded to me in your posts like you would be much more comfortable being on target, and that placing in a guide that is a little low for him and feels behind to you is going to cause you stress.

He sounds over all like maybe he is 3/4 through Bigger. Thus, starting at the beginning of Bigger doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He will actually start R&S 4 1/2 way through Preparing. Between the paragraph writing in the last 1/2 of R&S 3 and in the first 1/2 of R&S 4 I think he would build those writing skills throughout the guide.

Lastly, I have just found that my boys writing abilities really come together around ages 10 & 11. They were reluctant writers at 9 1/2 as well. I think he will grow a lot in 4th grade and that you would be fine. I think Bigger will encourage that writing growth in him at this age, whereas Bigger wouldn't leave him challenged and might not do as well at encouraging that growth. You may want to scale back some of the amount of writing in the first month or two of Preparing, and then add it in so you are doing the entire guide as written by month 3; thus, you can build up the writing and not overwhelm either of you. If he is writing 3 sentence paragraphs though he sounds ready to me for the written narrations in Preparing.

I realize you were being steered towards Bigger. So I hope this doesn't confuse you. It is just a different way of looking at the situation, and ultimately you know your son and your home and you best, and what is going to work for you.

Blessings,
Last edited by LovingJesus on Sat May 16, 2015 7:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

jjn3beans
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:44 pm

Re: Placement help 4th grader 9 1/2 yr.old

Post by jjn3beans » Sat May 16, 2015 7:58 am

Even though I wasn't comparing Bigger and Preparing, this thread has helped immensely! I chose Beyond for my 3rd grader, though she placed in between Beyond and Bigger. Her reading is slower, but her writing is more advanced. She'll do Bigger in 4th grade as well. We've started Beyond, and so far everything has been a perfect fit. Even the stretching her into more detailed oral narrations will fit her perfectly. I may have her copy a sentence or two of her oral narrations this year as the year goes on. The spelling words from beginning to end are exactly where she is in her reading, and those words will compliment her phonics instruction perfectly.
Julie
DD15, DD13 (MtMM + some WG)
DD11 (Preparing)

Post Reply