Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and reading?

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gardenmama28
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:27 am

Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and reading?

Post by gardenmama28 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:21 pm

Hi there! We are currently using Beyond for Grade 2. We are a little over half way through Reading Made Easy (going very well), and using List 1 of spelling words. So far (maybe I am missing it somewhere) I have found no discussion on what is a vowel, what is a consonant, or any spelling / phonics "rules" (such as, "When two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking"). Am I missing this somewhere, or is it assumed that I will teach it on my own? Or is this kind of instruction too "textbooky" and somehow she will learn these things by observation in her reading and spelling assignments?

This week we are doing spelling words such as cute, huge, mule etc. The long U sound is formed because of the vowel on the end of the word. Do I explain this to her, or is she supposed to just absorb it through observation????

So far it seems like Reading made easy just says that a word is said a certain way, and does not explain Why it is that way. Maybe it introduces this later on?

Any advice would be lovely.

I should add that we did LHFHG last year and I did find any thing like this in that guide either.

MelInKansas
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Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by MelInKansas » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:36 pm

There is no specific study of phonics rules or spelling rules. Some people supplement with this and some don't. CM philosophy states that the method for learning these things is read, read, read. The spelling lists rely on patterns to teach rules but there is no specific statement of the rule, it's supposed to be by visual memory. You can certainly point out that the U says it's name because of the E at the end, and I have done that before. Quite honestly, this is exactly how I learned spelling as I was an avid reader as a child. So, seeing the words spelled correctly in books is how I learned to spell.

Especially for the younger children I think this method is much preferable for helping children learn to love reading. Rules are difficult and boring, reading is fun. I have seen my kids, even one who struggled with phonics sounds at first, learn to love reading and grow into these skills as they go along. I have often been tempted by programs that teach all the rules, as I don't feel like I have a good handle on them myself sometimes. But, I have gone forward and tried to trust that HOD is complete and as I keep going along with it I find that it really is. It's just not a standard approach.
Melissa
"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
His mercies never come to an end"

DD12 - Rev to Rev + DITHOR 6/7/8
DD10 - CTC + DITHOR 2/3
DD7 - Bigger + ERs
DS5 - LHFHG
DD2 - ABC123
2 babies in heaven

hs.mama07

Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by hs.mama07 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:11 am

Hi! I had the same question and ended up doing quite a bit of research on the topic. There is more than one way to teach spelling and, in my opinion, the most important thing is to do what works for your child. My niece used HOD spelling and did great--she's had no trouble with spelling. My son, though, was struggling. He was fine with words that were spelled the same way they sounded, but when a word had multiple options he'd get stuck. For example, the word "make." He'd spell it correct after seeing the index card, but a day later he'd spell it "mace" or sit there trying to figure out if it was a k or a c. He had trouble seeing which one looked right even after writing it correctly multiple times (I have trouble with that too--visualizing words doesn't come naturally for either of us). But once I told him the rule for when c makes the "s" sound, he got the word right every time. (c says "s" before the letters e, i or y). So we recently switched to a rules-based spelling program and he's doing really well with it. He's a very engineering-minded kid...rules just work with him. But if my niece had to sit through this program, I think she'd pull all her hair out, lol. All that to say, don't be afraid to change if you need to, but you can be confident that your child can become a good speller/reader w/o rules. From what I read on the boards, many children have used HOD spelling and are doing very well.

Carrie
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Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by Carrie » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:40 am

This is a good question! Here is a link to a thread that will be very helpful to you as you ponder the progression toward Charlotte-Mason focused spelling instruction that is included within HOD. The lists in Beyond and Bigger are meant to prepare the child for the studied dication passages that come after that. Studied dication is designed to train kiddos in how to spell within the context of writing. :D

Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15280

This next thread has multiple links about the way spelling and dictation is designed within HOD and the insights from Charlotte Mason that influenced our approach. Be sure to scroll to the end of the thread and click on the multiple links there: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15006&p=105918

Be sure to click on the links within my post in the thread above too, to more fully explain the methodology behind this approach. :D

Blessings,
Carrie

psreit
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Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by psreit » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:48 am

I agree that spelling is best learned by reading (and writing). My daughter was doing an OG method for her reading because she has dyslexia. It helped her reading, but when she reached a certain level it was just spelling rule after spelling rule. It was frustrating for her to try remember all those rules. And this program should have been for her, because it was specifically for dyslexia. It didn't work. We did try All About Spelling, but that is teaching spelling the same way. So, I decided to just have my daughter read and do copywork, with occasional rules pointed out. Now, since we came back to HOD, she is doing dictation and really likes that. She will still spell words wrong in her casual writing that she has already 'learned', but just having regular exposure to words by reading and writing is what will help her improve. I used a unit study with my older girls when they were homeschooled. The author of that program has a degree in elementary ed. with a specialty in language arts. She is the one I first heard say that children learn to spell best by reading and writing. I am seeing firsthand how true that is. She pretty much scheduled short lists like HOD. :) I'm not trying any other spelling program. :wink:
I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. III John 4
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Nealewill
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Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by Nealewill » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:34 pm

I concur as well!!!!

My oldest and middle child have special learning needs and they has serious issues with spelling. But the more my kids read, the better they spell. I tried switching over to dictation for my old last year and I didn't stick with it as much as I should have. I recently switched over again. I am glad I did. She spells most things that follow the "rules" correctly but there are just too many words that don't follow the rules! So while focusing heavily on rules may help in the beginning, it really don't do that much for a child IMHO. HOD has lists that teach words that sound similarly together for the early years. But as kids start reading quite a bit, they no longer really need it. They begin to memorize how things are spelled because they have seen it so often. Plus, HOD has students copy quite a bit for some time. This also helps with spelling IMHO. I am glad we switched over to dictation personally. I am planning to switch my other two kids over as well once we get a good switching point.

I can't begin to tell you how much we have enjoyed all of the LA resources and the spelling with dictation seems to be well rounded as part of the flow of this curriculum if that makes sense. She has taken into consideration how much spelling your kids are doing already and it seems like a very natural fit.
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

gardenmama28
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Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by gardenmama28 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:08 pm

Maybe the reason we are running into some issues is that we are a bit behind in the reading and my daughter hasn't had as much practice with that. (My husband wanted to help with reading last year, but didn't continue with it after Christmas..... I didn't want to step on his toes last year so I waited till this year to take over that part) We are only on lesson 67 in Reading made Easy so we haven't even got to all the different sounds yet, but are going ahead with spelling.

So when my daughter looks at a word like huge, she would say, hug. Then when it comes to the next day and I say, "spell 'huge'", she doesn't even remember that she was spelling that word the day before because to her it was hug. I did read the words to her before she did the index card thing, but they didn't stick in her head.

I know from my own experience as an avid reader that seeing words spelled correctly has really helped with my spelling (in the same way as reading good literature helps with grammar).

I'll read the links you posted, Carrie, thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

One thing I am still wondering, and maybe those links answer this. Do you ever recommend teaching what is a vowel and what is a consonant - or do you just mention this in passing, or does it come up somewhere that I haven't come across yet???
I feel like that is an important thing to know even just as general knowledge that most people in society know.....

Thanks for all your comments and advice everyone!

Nealewill
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by Nealewill » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:15 pm

I didn't quite check that link yet but I am thinking that you would want to be finished with Reading Lesson prior to starting spelling. Typically kids learn to read (while learning basic handwriting), then they focus on handwriting while learning basic spelling, then they learn more spelling while they are introduced to writing, then they perfect their spelling when they are heavily writing. It seems like that is the basic order (from what I have read): (1) read (2) handwriting (3) spelling and (4) writing. So if it were me, I would probably not do spelling until you are done with that reading lesson book (basically once your dd start the emerging readers, she is then ready for spelling).
Daneale

DD 13 WG
DS 12 R2R
DD 10 R2R

Enjoyed DITHOR, Little Hearts, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, R2R, RevtoRev, MtMM

MomtoJGJE
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Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by MomtoJGJE » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:34 pm

I would also think it would be very hard to spell a word (and that have any meaning, therefore "stick") if you couldn't read yet. I would say finish up the reading, maybe doubling up the lessons? Then you could just do spelling list two along with Emerging Readers in Bigger and start with dictation in Preparing.

gardenmama28
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:27 am

Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by gardenmama28 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:36 pm

Maybe you can advise me on her reading too. I have just been working straight through the Reading Made Easy, doing one lesson a day rather than the three per week as the book recommends. I feel like it might be a bit much to do two per day - although maybe one in the morning and one at night could work. She actually is reading at a higher level than the lesson we are on - she can flip ahead to a story 20 lessons ahead and read it pretty much on her own. She can pick up an Easy Reader like Little Bear and read it with only a few prompts. It is just those last few sounds she hasn't been taught yet, but she has picked up on several words just on her own. She likes to read her Bible that is and ICB translation - grade 3 reading level. Of course she needs quite a bit of help with that one but she still tries on her own. Would it be rushing things too much to do two reading lessons a day, (10 per week) when the book is only recommending 3 per week?

One other thought I had, is that I don't want to just quit spelling for now, because we are in the routine and she actually likes it pretty well, and up until this week she would get 10/10 every lesson by the end of the week. Maybe rather than going ahead in the units though, I could backtrack and do the List 2 from some units we have already done - That way we would still be working with the same types of words only bigger words?????

So, my feeling is to just carry on as we are, doing one lesson a day from Reading Made Easy, and do some List 2 words from Units 1-10ish for spelling. Any thoughts??

MelInKansas
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by MelInKansas » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:18 am

I started spelling lists in Beyond before my daughter was done with The Reading Lesson. I don't see that you need to be that fluent in reading in order to start spelling. Some kids seem to make it pretty far in spelling without always being able to read those words (and long u words are always confusing too I think, some of them say the "oo" and some are more "you" even on that list).

I however do not do the spelling words the way they are recommended in the guide. Day 2 spelling test is just too early and too frustrating for my daughter - and we have run into issues before like what you described, that she looked at the card on day 1 as instructed but didn't really know how to say/read the word, so how can she know it when I read it to her? I read what someone else does and we do a visual/auditory practice on days 1 and 2. She looks at the word, reads the word, spells it orally to me, looks at it again, turns it over, and writes it down. This means I do have to be with her, whereas with her just looking and copying I would not. But it takes a very very short time. Day 3 we do sentences as described in the guide and day 4 we do test as described in the guide. My daughter is a perfectionist and we have had to work SOOOO hard on her not breaking down in tears whenever she misses a spelling word or reads a word wrong the first time or misses a math problem. Day 2 test was just too stressful for us.

I would keep going with the spelling lists. Unit 14 the lists start getting harder, but you will want to cover the last 1/2 of list 1 with the sight words that are needed there before moving on to list 2. Don't get discouraged and encourage your daughter not to get discouraged that she's not doing "as well" as she did on the earlier lists. The later lists are just harder.

Maybe you could skip some lessons if they are things she already knows? Or just keep going with one lesson a day but it does sound like maybe she's ready for Emerging Readers rather than RME if she can read so much already! Another idea if you don't think this would tire her too much is to add in ER 1/2 pace or something. That would give her practice reading, maybe she would enjoy that more than lessons. You could still work on RME and drop it once you think she's covered everything in there. Just some thoughts.
Melissa
"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
His mercies never come to an end"

DD12 - Rev to Rev + DITHOR 6/7/8
DD10 - CTC + DITHOR 2/3
DD7 - Bigger + ERs
DS5 - LHFHG
DD2 - ABC123
2 babies in heaven

gardenmama28
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:27 am

Re: Does HOD include phonics "rules" for spelling and readin

Post by gardenmama28 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:05 pm

Thanks, Mel in Kansas, for your advice. I like your idea about starting the emerging readers 1/2 speed. She is eager to get on to some longer and more interesting stories. I also like the way you handle the spelling. My daughter sounds very similar to yours - is easily discouraged by getting words wrong on the day two spelling and somewhat of a perfectionist. She is often guessing and I have to remind her that it is just for practice.

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