dyslexia and HOD high school

[jenn in nc]

Good morning, ladies.

Can we talk a bit about accommodations for dyslexia at the high school level? Are there other moms on the board who are using HOD for high school kids who struggle with dyslexia?

For a bit of background, I currently have two kids in high school and one of them is dyslexic. He has come a loooooonnnng way and HOD has been a huge part of his success. We used MTMM for his 9th grade year (last year). It was the perfect choice, and he had a fantastic year. But this year, with the WG guide (for 10th grade) we've hit a wall, and I feel like I could use some discussion/advice from others who've walked this particular path.

I know going into a new guide that even if my kids are placed properly, there will probably be some struggles at the beginning and they may need some help to get going with the stepped-up level of skills and so forth. I actually love that HOD is set up this way. So I was expecting the daily requirements to make a jump going from the MTMM guide to the WG guide. But we are on unit 10 in the guide now, and we just can't seem to reach a place where the guide feels like the right blend of challenging-but-doable...

My son is working 7 hrs a day, some days more, and still not finishing (not even close). He is a slow reader, so that is part of it. He is also a slow writer (we're working on the typing skills... he currently types about 25 wpm and he's concentrating on bringing that up). He is also a slow-processor ... so it is not just that the physical process of writing takes more time, it is that even thinking about what to write down (or say, for oral narrations) takes extra time.

Here are just a couple of examples of areas where he is really struggling...

Book of Discovery is probably the hardest book for him. He gets finished reading it and has no idea what he has read -- narration is impossible. I can go through it with him paragraph by paragraph but that takes forever. Yesterday I started having him take notes as he reads, and I hope that will help. But of course that adds to the time requirement. I've looked for an audio book for him, but the only one I can find is a Librivox recording by someone who's native tongue is obviously not English and the accent is difficult to comprehend to the point of being totally distracting. So that's a no-go.

He is enjoying science but reading two chapters in one day takes a very long time and he seems to retain very little of what he read. I've dropped his requirements to one chapter per day, and his retention and enjoyment of the subject improved dramatically -- but accommodating like this puts him pretty far behind in this subject.

There are other places in the guide where he is struggling as well. He is typically a good narrator, so this is not an issue of not knowing how to narrate well.

I'm starting to feel nervous about not being anywhere close to finished with this guide when 11th grade rolls around next fall. More than that, I think I'm struggling with how much to accommodate. I want his daily requirements to be doable for him... I want success to be possible. But I don't want to accommodate so much that by the time he graduates, he is nowhere near where he needs to be to succeed in a college environment.

I'm really sorry this is so long...

If anyone has any thoughts to share, I'm all ears.

Jenn

[Jennymommy]

I don't have any great suggestions other than you may want to speak with Carrie or Julie and get their expert advice. I really wanted to encourage you and give you and your ds kudos for the effort and determination given to the program:- My ds in WG has also struggled some as he is a very analytical type and takes time to really process what he is learning. Because of this, I have selected only some of the living library titles and dropped some of the activities associated. We discuss and read together the religion titles, and because math has been an issue, we moved to Life of Fred this year for the relational quality of that program. Even so, he is working 7 hours a day, but he is not overwhelmed because he enjoys what he is learning most of the time. One crazy thought...does your ds enjoy the foreign language? Perhaps American sign language might appeal instead of more bookwork? Anyway, God bless and guide you.

[LynnH]

I don't know that I have any great answers, but just a few thoughts. I will agree that the jump from MTMM to the WG guide is pretty big in terms of workload and reading comprehension. The Book of Discovery is a challenging read. My ds really struggled understanding it also. Somewhere around the point you are at now it got a little easier for him to understand. I think because it got to some things he had studied before and the names of the places were more familiar to him verses the earlier chapters that use more of the ancient names for places. We are finishing week 16 and he doesn't struggle with that book near as much as he did. I think it has also helped that now the readings in the Mapping the World book often duplicate some of the information in The Book of Discovery. How does your ds do understanding the Mapping the World book? Another thing that might help is if you found short youtube videos that covered the events in The Book of Discovery chapters . Of course that might add time to his day, or it might not depending on if the reading went faster because he understood it better. I also looked for an audio recording of this book at first and I know exactly what you are talking about with the Librivox one. Taking notes on written narration days really helps my ds, hopefully you will see the same thing.

Here are my thoughts on accommodation. I think you accommodate as much as you need to in order for him to be successful. That is what would happen if he were in ps. When he gets to college and goes in with a dyslexia diagnosis they will provide all kinds of accommodations. My dd has several friends at her college that get everything from people who read the chapters to them, to extra time for tests, to taking the tests at the tutoring center, to help with their papers at the writing center etc. Whatever they need to be successful a good college will provide. I have a ds that will need accommodations due to his dysgraphia and my focus for the high school years is having him figure out which accommodations are most helpful so he knows what to ask for in college.

One other thought I have as far as the typing/writing is have you ever tried Dragon Dictation for the computer? I have heard really good things about the current version. We have tried it in the past for my ds and because he tends to talk pretty slow and he is also a slower processor it didn't work very well for him, but it might work for your ds. There are also other software typing programs out there that are designed just for those with dyslexia. They can be pricey, but they have really high end word prediction capabilities and make writing(typing) much easier and faster for those with that diagnosis.

I know how challenging it is to have a child that doesn't fit the mold, so I am praying for you and your son.

[jenn in nc]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply and helping me think this through. I really appreciate it.

Jennymommy, I love your idea about ASL. He is doing well with foreign language right now, but I'm going to tuck that idea away and possibly revisit it in the future. The idea of having something more "physical" in his daily lineup sounds like a helpful one.

LynnH, thank you so much for the prayers. It is so difficult sometimes... just reading what you wrote and knowing someone else is in a similar place really encouraged me. I remember reading some of your posts last year with MTMM and following along since we were staying a few weeks behind you. I haven't had much time to be on the board this year but it is good to know you guys are still a few weeks ahead.

I have heard that Book of Discovery gets easier as you go through it and I will tell him that that has been your experience as well. Taking notes during the reading helped him tremendously the other day, and afterwords he was able to tell me what he learned and then write a good narration. It did take a long time but in the end I don't think there is any better way. Even if there was a good audio recording, I think I'd find that he would still need to take notes. Any yes, I think you're right that a lot of what makes it so difficult is the myriad of unfamiliar names and places. He is actually looking forward to the chapter on Marco Polo... I hope that one goes better!

Here are my thoughts on accommodation. I think you accommodate as much as you need to in order for him to be successful. That is what would happen if he were in ps. When he gets to college and goes in with a dyslexia diagnosis they will provide all kinds of accommodations. My dd has several friends at her college that get everything from people who read the chapters to them, to extra time for tests, to taking the tests at the tutoring center, to help with their papers at the writing center etc. Whatever they need to be successful a good college will provide. I have a ds that will need accommodations due to his dysgraphia and my focus for the high school years is having him figure out which accommodations are most helpful so he knows what to ask for in college.

Accommodate as much as is needed to be successful... your thoughts here exactly echo what my son's doctor used to say. He would tell me, do whatever I need to do to make sure my son can be successful, and then work up incrementally from there. And it seems that whenever we hit a wall, going back to this advice is the key we need. I needed that reminder! Thank you for the advice... and for understanding.

Jenn

[LynnH]

The story on Marco Polo is exactly where it started getting easier for my son to understand The Book of Discovery. It does sound like taking notes on written narration days is going to be the key for him as it is for my son. Yes those days that box takes at least 1 1/2 hours, but it is what it is as my son would say.

[davisfam7]

Hi Jenn,

My oldest son who is a 12th grader has a huge outlet processing disorder. He has a big disconnect between what he thinks and getting his hand to write or type it. So while it is not dyslexia, we have had to adapt. We use Dragon Naturally and it is worth every dime. My son speaks into the headset and the computer types what he says. Now we do have some issues like auto correct on a phone. After he is done he goes back over his narration or paper and corrects any word or grammatical issues. We also work on handwriting and typing, but for longer assignments he uses Dragon. Also any co-op classes he has participated in we have always used a tape recorder. That way he can listen and then go back over it and make notes from the tapes. This has helped him to learn to outline and take notes while at the same time he isn't panicked in class that he is missing something. If there is an over head used in class or white board notes he will copy those. We intend to use the tape recorder in any higher education settings he may go in to. Just some thoughts for modifying.

[jenn in nc]

Using a tape recorder is a great idea! I'll remember that for when my son takes driver's ed in a few months... I think that will help a lot. Thank you!

[my3sons]

You have already received such good advice here! I'll just mention a few things - when Wyatt did WG, it took him about 6 1/2 to 7 hours a day to do. As 6 1/2 credits are earned, and the Living Library adds about 30-45 minutes a day but is not part of the credits, and the plans are taking those 6 1/2 credits and scrunching them into 4 days a week instead of 5 days a week, that is actually pretty much on target. I know you mentioned ds is not finishing within that time always, but maybe just schooling 5 days a week and spreading the 4 days a week out over 5 days would be a huge help. So, that is an idea to try!

As far as narrating, I think I'd try to read the first page to him yourself and then briefly orally narrate it yourself to get him on the right track and to model narrating. Then, I'd have him silently read the next page or 2 pages (depending on how much he'd retain well) and then right way after reading just that page or 2 on his own, have him orally narrate to you. I'd let him read the end of the reading on his own and not have him narrate on it. Gradually, throughout the rest of the year, I'd try to up the amount he is orally narrating on a little bit at a time, but still continue with you reading 1 page and orally narrating at the start. I find setting the context and getting dc started on the right foot, as well as modeling good narrations even briefly, can really help!!! Eventually, ds can use a marker board to jot phrases to jog his memory and narrate from those brief notes. This needn't be an exhaustive list of notes, but rather just a handful of bulleted phrases to jog his memory. Having ds narrate immediately after his reading would be best, though I know from personal experience this is not always doable. So, another idea would be for him to orally narrate into an IPod or recording device right after he has read.

I think your ds is doing a very good job from what you have shared, and with these few changes, I think he will continue to move ahead well in his high school years. I did have a talk with Wyatt about how his average school day in WG High School was going to be quite a bit longer than his average school day was in MTMM, and that this was a part of earning 6 1/2 credits in high school within 4 days of school each week. It was still an adjustment for him, as he'd been used to doing MTMM school in much less time, but he began to take real pride in what he was accomplishing in high school and in understanding that it was going to require him to really step up to the plate and do more as a growing and maturing young man. I do realize that having dyslexia is going to have its own set of challenges for your ds, and I don't want to minimize that in any way, but I think you have a very bright young man that will be able to rise to the challenge and do very well in high school, with just these few changes. God bless!

In Christ,
Julie

[jenn in nc]

As far as narrating, I think I'd try to read the first page to him yourself and then briefly orally narrate it yourself to get him on the right track and to model narrating. Then, I'd have him silently read the next page or 2 pages (depending on how much he'd retain well) and then right way after reading just that page or 2 on his own, have him orally narrate to you. I'd let him read the end of the reading on his own and not have him narrate on it. Gradually, throughout the rest of the year, I'd try to up the amount he is orally narrating on a little bit at a time, but still continue with you reading 1 page and orally narrating at the start. I find setting the context and getting dc started on the right foot, as well as modeling good narrations even briefly, can really help!!! Eventually, ds can use a marker board to jot phrases to jog his memory and narrate from those brief notes. This needn't be an exhaustive list of notes, but rather just a handful of bulleted phrases to jog his memory. Having ds narrate immediately after his reading would be best, though I know from personal experience this is not always doable. So, another idea would be for him to orally narrate into an IPod or recording device right after he has read.

I love the approach to narrating you outlined here Julie, thanks for the idea! I think I'll give this a try this week.

You're always so encouraging and so willing to work with us to come up with an approach that will work... I really appreciate you and all the HOD staff.

Gratefully,
Jenn

[my3sons]

As far as narrating, I think I'd try to read the first page to him yourself and then briefly orally narrate it yourself to get him on the right track and to model narrating. Then, I'd have him silently read the next page or 2 pages (depending on how much he'd retain well) and then right way after reading just that page or 2 on his own, have him orally narrate to you. I'd let him read the end of the reading on his own and not have him narrate on it. Gradually, throughout the rest of the year, I'd try to up the amount he is orally narrating on a little bit at a time, but still continue with you reading 1 page and orally narrating at the start. I find setting the context and getting dc started on the right foot, as well as modeling good narrations even briefly, can really help!!! Eventually, ds can use a marker board to jot phrases to jog his memory and narrate from those brief notes. This needn't be an exhaustive list of notes, but rather just a handful of bulleted phrases to jog his memory. Having ds narrate immediately after his reading would be best, though I know from personal experience this is not always doable. So, another idea would be for him to orally narrate into an IPod or recording device right after he has read.

I love the approach to narrating you outlined here Julie, thanks for the idea! I think I'll give this a try this week.

You're always so encouraging and so willing to work with us to come up with an approach that will work... I really appreciate you and all the HOD staff.

Gratefully,
Jenn

I find that the Lord brings wonderful ladies like you to the board to be an encouragement to ME, especially in this sometimes crazy busy but also sometimes lonely stage of life!!! We live in the country near a town with a tiny population, which I do love, but which can also be somewhat removed. It's comforting to have other moms that are homeschooling to talk to on this board. It feels like such a support system, and it gives me courage for the day! So, I'm glad something I said may have helped here, and thank you for your kind words!

In Christ,
Julie

[jenn in nc]

Hi Julie,

Oh my goodness, yes! Yes, this homeschooling life is crazy busy. And yes, it tends to be lonely. It's funny that you mentioned that because over the last couple of days, since the noise of Christmas gatherings and events has begun dying down, and we are settling in for the long winter/spring stretch of schooling, I've been thinking how this life that we as homeschooling mama's have chosen can be a lonely one. But you are right, this board is such an encouragement. A place where we link arms, help each other through the struggles, celebrate the successes... it's a good place. HOD is so much more than just a curriculum.

So hugs to you and Carrie and all the ladies here on the HOD board!!

Warmly,
Jenn

[lmercon]

My severely dyslexic ds is not as far along as yours. He's in 7th grade this year using Rev. to Rev. However, I am also very nervous about high school. As of now, I still read aloud all the content areas. There is no way he could read all that on his own and keep the pace up. I think the key is to get as much of the reading material read aloud to him. Could you do some of the reading to help reduce how much he has to read? As I'm sure you know, reading is not an automated function for dyslexics like it is for the rest of us, so it can be an exhausting exercise. There is a computer program that you can purchase that allows you to scan the pages of a text, and the computer will read aloud the text back to you. I was planning on getting that for my ds for college, but I'm thinking it might be good to have for high school too. I can't remember the name, but I will try to find it. It might be worth some searching.
hth,
Laura

[crlacey]

Laura, I would love to know the name of the program if you find it. I have 2 dyslexics, so my reading out loud time can become quite lengthy. A program like that could save my voice and some time.

[lmercon]

The program is called Natural Reader. In order to get the scanning capability, you'd have to order the ultimate package. There is a free download to try it, but I think that natural, realistic voices make are better.

[crlacey]

The program is called Natural Reader. In order to get the scanning capability, you'd have to order the ultimate package. There is a free download to try it, but I think that natural, realistic voices make are better.

Thanks!I may have to find some money in our budget somewhere.