habit of attention

[queenireneof3]

Hello!

I am wondering if anyone has any practical advice about teaching kids the habit of attention? I have two kiddos in Beyond this year and sometimes they like to distract each other while I am reading to them. This also applies to giving them instructions. I don't like to repeat instructions, but if they didn't hear me because they are distracting themselves, I'm not sure what other options I have. Today I disciplined them both for not listening to my cleaning instructions when I gave them.

I don't want to get grouchy during our school time when they are not listening, so how do I teach them to pay attention?

Thanks!

[Samuel'sMommy]

I don't have any answers. I only have 1 doing school but I have trouble with him keeping attention at times too. I will be following this thread for advice as well. I know there are many other women on this board who can offer suggestions.

[Nealewill]

I don't have any great advice but want you to know you are not alone. Last year I did Beyond with my two younger kids and they did okay together. But this year I split them up and they do great alone. However, they both do grammar, spelling and cursive together. They also both love to sit in the same room while I read the stories out loud and listen in on each others story time box. For me, they are never allowed to sit on the same side of me when I read. That always leads to them touching each other and that either leads to laughter or fighting. Not good! Also, if they persist in not listening, I take things away. My kids get about 30-45 min of media a day. Usually they get 10 min in the morning and then maybe 30 minutes in the evening. If they irritate each other, then they lose media. I have also had them do chores for not listening. Now, the flip side is if they do a great job, I may give them an extra 15 minutes of media or I may make a special treat with dinner or something like that. I try to reward good behavior and have consequences for bad behavior. Unfortunately, I think this will be an area my kids will probably always struggle with. They all seem like they just love each other and love to be together interacting with each other. I try not to take it personal and know they will eventually outgrow it. I just try to encourage the good and discourage the bad as consistently as possible.

[MelInKansas]

When someone is not listening, or I think they are not listening, I stop reading and ask them a question about what I've been reading. If they know the answer I say "well I stopped because you seemed to be goofing off and not listening to me, so I would like you to be quiet and act more like you are paying attention." If they don't know the answer I say something like "well I stopped because it didn't seem like you were paying attention and it seems you weren't." I might go back and re-read or something but I definitely emphasize that they need to be paying attention.

If they are messing around with each other when they are supposed to be listening or working on something I call them back to attention and to what they are supposed to be doing. Usually infractions of a sibling rivalry nature earn a time-out but if I was reading to or working one-on-one with the offending child I wouldn't do that because it would derail the pace of school. I would definitely keep them separated however you can.

As to "teaching the skill of attention" I don't really know how to answer that one. My oldest still struggles sometimes, and then other times I see her really following through. If I am there to remind and redirect they do better, if I am not they often get distracted. I've never had so many issues in a guide like Beyond where I am always working with them. I guess I probably do a lot of reminding/redirecting with those earlier guides that I don't even realize. But I also have never had them combined before. Usually I also remind them that they will have to narrate/answer questions afterwards or if they don't seem to be paying attention again there are more questions to answer. First of all my kids love the reading and the activities, but also they know they need to pay attention because there are questions to answer. It's the same with their Dad reading to them in the evenings. There is always discussion so if they aren't listening they kind of get left out of that.

I hope this helps.

[queenireneof3]

Thank you ladies!

Asking questions mid-read is a good idea. I've started doing that. I've also gotten them their own square pillow/blanket to sit on during reading times if they are distracting each other too much so they have to sit in one spot apart from each other. Nealewill, how did you split your kids up after Beyond? I am wondering if I should do that, although I am afraid of the extra work.

Thank you!

[Nealewill]

Basically my youngest is doing Little this year and my middle child is doing Bigger. If I check the chart today, both of then my youngest would place in either Beyond or Bigger. She does a good job of writing and reading when she wants too but she doesn't always want too, KWIM? HOD doesn't necessarily recommend doing guides back to back because of burn out on the parents and because Bigger and Preparing are their most teacher intensive guides. But next year that is what I will be doing. One thing though has saved me here. My youngest and middle child do grammar, spelling and cursive together. I don't mind them doing some stuff together but in general, I prefer to separate them. I had thought about letting my youngest do the writing with her big bro too but don't think I will. I really like how each level is so balanced and think it would be just too much work.

So for us, my youngest went from Beyond down to Little Hearts. My middle child went from Beyond to Bigger hearts. Even though some of the stuff in Little Hearts is a bit easy fro her, she really loves it! And since she reads well, she is doing a lot of the reading alone but again, it has been hit or miss lately as well. When we first started, she read the history box alone and the story time box alone. But lately, she spends a lot of time reading other stuff while her big sis and big bro are doing school that she doesn't really feel like reading this too. I only spend about 45 minutes on this stuff with her at the most so I am reading it too her now. And for all 3 kids - my total teaching time is around 5 hours max. I have shifted some stuff from Bigger to be more independent for my son and that has helped. My oldest does great independently. And my youngest can be independent when she wants too. Since she is so young and in no way required to do things independently, I have pushed anything. I let her lead, at this point, what she wants to do independently.

[Motherjoy]

For the habit of attention, the first person to change is you! Don't repeat yourself. Ever. Don't give them an instruction unless you can see their eyes. This cuts down on a lot of inattention.

Link removed by board moderator per board rules.

After watching Simply Charlotte Mason's video on attention, I changed my homeschool. I don't repeat myself. I don't repeat instructions. I don't reread sections of books. They either pay attention or they miss out. It makes school go so much quicker, too. CM writes a lot about attention. You could always start a study on attention in your homeschool. Give it 12 weeks to develop this one habit, and make that your main goal. Here are some good resources that we've used:

Link removed by board moderator per board rules.

and the companion version for kids:
Link removed by board moderator per board rules.

Also, Character First has some great stuff on this character trait:
Link removed by board moderator per board rules.

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[queenireneof3]

Thank you, Motherjoy! I own "Laying down the rails" and have enjoyed it. I find I need more practical examples to help me, so requiring eye contact and the child to repeat the instruction is good, helpful advice.

What I find tricky is if my daughter doesn't pay attention to the story, she seems to care less about the natural consequence of missing out on hearing the story. Maybe she is relieved that she doesn't have to learn to narrate if she doesn't listen? I don't know if this has to do with home schooling with her older brother (by 2 years) and her feeling "less smart" compared to him (since he can narrate so easily) that she doesn't even bother listening? She has never said this, I just wonder. Or if she is not interested in the story? She does seem interested most of the time, but narration is very difficult for her (she is only 6 so my expectations are not high yet).

I am wondering about uncombining my children or at the least, giving them their own "storytime" with different books, so that they each have their own narration work.

I will definitely use eye contact to help my children with instructions. I'm just not very clear on "natural consequences" for not listening.

Thank you for your reply!

[Nealewill]

You are not alone in your kids not caring if they miss out. My kids could absolutely careless too! That is why we have alternative consequences The natural ones would be very effective.

[Motherjoy]

yes, I didn't mention it earlier, but we do *other* consequences when needed as well. Especially, for one child who really can be spacey if I let him. Usually this is more in the area of chores and not schoolwork, though. I do think that the more firm you are, the more you keep on it, they will learn. It may not be overnight. Getting school to go smoothly can take years. We combine our three middle boys (10, almost 9, and almost , and we have loved combining. They did Beyond last year and really enjoyed it, but we did have more issues with paying attention last year than we do this year. So, I don't know if its just maturity or subject matter. Just keep at it. I really think it will get better.

[queenireneof3]

Thank you ladies...

Would you mind sharing your alternative consequences with me? It helps me to make everything as practical as possible. I know every kid is different. Thanks!

[Nealewill]

I take my kids screen time and make them do extra chores. Or I make my son stand in the corner until he has is good attitude. A friend of mine makes her kids sit on their knees and hold their arms in the air until they act better. Arms get tired FAST so her kids shape up quick LOL. But I have found that taking things away or making kids stand in a corner is my fastest solution

Although last week my son did something and I got so frustrated with him that I made him write on one side of lined paper that "I will respect and obey my mother." He had to write it 20 times. I don't know that he did but I was furious. When my husband came home he told his daddy privately that he is going to make sure he respects me and obeys me because he doesn't want to do that again LOL.

[mamanlait]

I do think attention comes with time. Your kids are still pretty young. In Preparing Hearts the child must listen carefully to the history story in order to complete a written narration. If the child listens carefully, they really do not need to go back and re-read the selected passage on their own to narrate. This is a natural reward for careful attention or a natural consequence for lack of attention. I know there are similar pieces with Bigger Hearts (but I'm not remembering how it's done right now).
My goal with the 8 and younger crowd is enjoyment of school. If there is a book that they really aren't enjoying and so not paying attention, I might consider swapping it out. I can't think of many, though, in Beyond that my kids didn't just LOVE. Could it be that younger siblings are noisy or are distracting while you read? Can you limit their distractions? If I question whether kids are paying attention, I might interject, "what do you think?" or ask some other open ended question to see if they are paying attention. If they aren't, I typically will ask them to re-read what I've just read aloud before we continue on. This done a handful of times over the years will help develop a fixed attention.

I don't want my kids to think school is drudgery...especially in the elementary years! Keep it fun and light and remember this is a marathon. It takes time! My husband reminded me this week when my oldest's writing essay wasn't up to par, "you cannot expect a college level paper from an 8th grader". We forget that it takes years to develop our end goal. At least for me, I see the end stage and sometimes want instant results.

[queenireneof3]

Thank you, mamanlait and nealewill!

I needed that reminder that they are still very young, and to make sure I am not pushing too hard. So far she has enjoyed, "A Lion to Guard Us", and most recently "Sarah Witcher's Story". My ds loves every story we read. My dd had a hard time paying attention to the Burgess books last year. She did alright with "Benjamin West and His Cat Grimalkin" this year. We just started "The Cabin Faced West" today and it has not grabbed her interest yet....

I tried "carrots" today for paying attention. My kids are crazy about cereal, since they are only allowed it on Saturday mornings. So I decided to hold the box while I read and reward their answers to my questions with a piece of cereal. Ha ha! They were both paying attention amazingly today.

I also switched Bible Study time to while we are eating breakfast and that has helped a lot. They love taking turns taking breaks from their food to recite the verse. And the focused time at the table helps them pay attention better!

I will keep all the suggestions in mind, especially writing that phrase 20x, nealewill! Ha ha! Thank you!

[my3sons]

I am late to this thread, but this is such a good topic that I wanted to respond! The habit of attention takes time to teach, and younger children naturally have a much shorter attention span. HOD keeps its younger guides shorter, and Carrie plans for each box of plans to be of a shorter duration. I have found it is best if I do not add to the guide, but rather focus on moving along with each box of plans. Drawing out discussions doesn’t help the habit of attention to form, so I make a point to stick to the plans, which helps us keep time allotments in check. Here is a link for most of the guides and suggested time allotments...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093&start=135#p74537

I find if I am standardly going longer than the suggested time allotments, the day is unnecessarily longer, and the dc are unable to maintain the habit of attention for that increased amount of time. So, finishing in a timely fashion is as much for the dc as it is for the mama!

Rotating disciplinary and inspirational subjects helps as well (i.e. disciplinary – math/grammar/etc.; and inspirational – reading living books/creative art or history projects/music, etc.).
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2125

Carrie has this to say about the habit of attention during reading…
I have to say that with my boys, allowing them to play with anything or have things in their hands while I'm reading distracts them. We go the more Charlotte-Mason route at our house in having the child develop a habit of attention when I'm reading, knowing their sole job is to focus on what I'm saying. The reason we choose this route to go is that it is lifelong training for any kind of class, sermon, school, or work setting where our children (and future adults) will be required to have the habit of attention. On the other hand, if we are purely reading aloud for pleasure at our house, then we allow our kiddos to latch-hook, color, or play Legos quietly, but anytime we read for school we require the habit of attention. We've always had our kiddos just cuddle up next to us and follow along with the readings. In keeping with CM, we also don't reread portions of the text either. If the narration or follow-up the child gave wasn't the best, then the next day we would stop and narrate after a shorter section instead. But the child needs to understand they will be required to retell from a single reading. All of this to say that I wouldn't spend time coming up with something else for your child to do during the reading. The listening is the work, and if kiddos can listen when their hands are busy, they should be able to apply the same concentration when their hands aren't busy. Two of my three boys so far, are over-the-top hands-on bodily kinesthetic kiddos. Yet, they have gained the much needed habit of careful listening and sitting quietly when I'm reading. It is a needed lifelong habit worth pursuing. I have to say that with my boys, allowing them to play with anything or have things in their hands while I'm reading distracts them. We go the more Charlotte-Mason route at our house in having the child develop a habit of attention when I'm reading, knowing their sole job is to focus on what I'm saying. The reason we choose this route to go is that it is lifelong training for any kind of class, sermon, school, or work setting where our children (and future adults) will be required to have the habit of attention.

On the other hand, if we are purely reading aloud for pleasure at our house, then we allow our kiddos to latchhook, color, or play Legos quietly, but anytime we read for school we require the habit of attention. We've always had our kiddos just cuddle up next to us and follow along with the readings. In keeping with CM, we also don't reread portions of the text either. If the narration or follow-up the child gave wasn't the best, then the next day we would stop and narrate after a shorter section instead. But the child needs to understand they will be required to retell from a single reading.

All of this to say that I wouldn't spend time coming up with something else for your child to do during the reading. The listening is the work,and if kiddos can listen when their hands are busy, they should be able to apply the same concentration when their hands aren't busy. Two of my three boys so far, are over-the-top hands-on bodily kinesthetic kiddos. Yet, they have gained the much needed habit of careful listening and sitting quietly when I'm reading. It is a needed lifelong habit worth pursuing.

Getting to bed on time the night before and having the house as together as possible helps the next day go better. Getting enough sleep is important too.

Having a planned start time, and sticking to it within a half an hour increment helps us get started off on the right foot. A filling breakfast and getting just the necessary chores out of the way (the ones that have to be done for the day to start off right - i.e. pets fed, dishes unloaded, garbage taken out) helps our day go better too.

Sticking to a routine rather than a set schedule works well for this stage of life for me. So, we do the same order of things, but we may be off on the exact times we are doing them.

Planned breaks help as well. So, having a daily planned 30-45 minute playtime with a sibling in the middle of schooling can be just the break my dc need to return and finish their school with a more focused habit of attention. However, I do need to watch the time and not let it go on forever, or coming back becomes too difficult to do.

Letting dc have a snack/drink time is another thing that helps. We have a list of snacks that are ok to have, and my older 2 dc may have their snack whenever they want, one sometime before lunch, and one sometime after lunch.

Finally, I find if MY habit of attention is good, then my dc's habit of attention is usually good too. So, the only thing I do other than teach during the routine time we do school is move laundry from washer to dryer to basket or drying rack. I don't hop on the computer, answer phone calls from anyone but family and then I try to keep it short, or do other household/media/etc. type things that divert my attention from teaching. Before doing this, I could be quick on the computer to find myself still on it an hour later. Same thing with the phone. So, by keeping my attention strong, my kiddos have improved their attention too.

In Christ,
Julie