Is it time to uncombine? UPDATE!

[bethelmommy]

I can't believe I'm even considering this. My 8 1/2 yo (3rd grade) and almost 7 yo (1st grade) have been combined since preschool. It has worked out wonderfully well until recently. Ds has really taken off on his own. He gets up early and completes all of his independent work before anyone else is even awake. Once he hears me stirring, he asks for whatever assistance he needs for any other seat work and then completes that on his own as well. His work is careful and thorough and he usually only has minor things to fix. He then is sitting around and waiting for dd to be ready to start school.

Dd is a late sleeper. She is also much slower at completing her work. She is very artsy, distractible and wants to help everyone else get things done instead of focusing on her own work. She seems to be taking longer and longer to get things done. She also needs much more supervision with her work as she has not yet learned to be careful and accurate. We have just finished Beyond and I am trying to decide what to do. I really think dd needs to slow down and mature a bit and ds needs to be able to move forward. He is very much a box checking/just get it done type of worker. Dd turns EVERYTHING into an art project.

When I review the placement chart, dd falls between Beyond/Bigger (more Bigger) and ds falls between Bigger/Preparing (more Preparing). So, I am contemplating splitting them up and letting them proceed at their own pace. We have a two week break for company and then will be starting back with school at the end of the month. I was thinking of doing the following but am open to other ideas:

DS - start Bigger at full speed and continue with 3A/3B math. Finish last unit of R&S 2 and start R&S 3 . Finish DITHOR student book 2/3 and begin book 4/5 with 4/5 readers.

DD - finish 1B math (3 weeks left), continue cursive, DITHOR level 2/3 (mostly orally) and extra spelling 1 list. Then start Bigger as written 1/2 speed except for Storytime and DITHOR which would be daily with her brother.

What do you ladies think? I know it sounds a little crazy to have them both in the same guide at different places, but I don't think dd needs to repeat anything. She actually answered a question today correctly from our reading of several days ago and ds and I both got it wrong! She has excellent comprehension and is able to orally narrate really well for her age.

Ds is writing really well and can probably do most of Bigger independently. I don't want to skip the guide though because I don't want things to get too hard too quickly and dampen all of his internal motivation. The transition to the additional writing in Bigger at full speed will be challenge enough I think, especially with his CP. He will finish his cursive book in the next few weeks and I will switch him to copy work and let him learn typing so that as he progresses through the guides he can switch to more typing.

I'm sorry this got so long. Thoughts???

[LynnH]

I think it is wonderful that your ds is that self-motivated and I think your plan sounds like a good one to allow him to really take off and soar. My ds with CP is the same kind of worker. He gets up and gets going and works very hard with very little dawdling. It has served him very well through the years. Your dd does sound like she could use some time to mature and going half speed will allow for this and also for you to work on her time management skills so that she doesn't continue to get slower and slower with her work.

[MomtoJGJE]

I know you said you don't want to skip him, but what about doing Preparing half speed? That would keep the daily writing down, but seems like it would be a really good fit. That's also the guide that basically teaches what he needs to know for completing the rest of the guides.

However I have had kids doing two places in one guide... it's not really hard to implement. If that's where they place the best then that seems like it would work well for you!

[bethelmommy]

I know you said you don't want to skip him, but what about doing Preparing half speed? That would keep the daily writing down, but seems like it would be a really good fit. That's also the guide that basically teaches what he needs to know for completing the rest of the guides.

I have considered this. However, when I look at the Preparing guide, I see much more I will need to work with him on due to the jump in skills, whereas he can pretty much just step into Bigger with very little extra guidance/training from me. Since he is on track to finish all the guides by the end of High School and I have a very busy 1 and 3 year old running around, Bigger is the more appealing option right now . Though maybe that's just the better choice for me, not him...?

[bethelmommy]

I think it is wonderful that your ds is that self-motivated and I think your plan sounds like a good one to allow him to really take off and soar. My ds with CP is the same kind of worker. He gets up and gets going and works very hard with very little dawdling. It has served him very well through the years. Your dd does sound like she could use some time to mature and going half speed will allow for this and also for you to work on her time management skills so that she doesn't continue to get slower and slower with her work.

Thanks Lynn. I always enjoy your posts about how you modify things as needed to make them work for your ds. I am storing them up to refer to when my ds gets to those guides.

[nena3927]

I think your plan to keep them in the same guide but at different speeds is excellent. I have seen that very plan recommended here several times and it sounds like it would work well for your children

[bethelmommy]

So..... I had another thought . What if I have both dc do Bigger 1/2 speed but keep ds at full speed with Language Arts and Math and add in the extensions ? We were already planning to do the extensions as night time read alouds. Instead, I would assign them for him as independent reading with the recommended narrations. Do you think this would be enough for him? Basically, if I can give dd a little more time to mature with her handwriting and learning to stay on task, I think she will be ready to move on to full speed Bigger within a few months and I would feel bad having them split up if in the end it's unnecessary. Also, when I look at the logistics of splitting them up, dd actually gets less time with me in the area that she needs it most (seat work) and ds gets less time with me overall. At half speed, they both get time with me on the combined subjects, and splitting up dd's seat work for a few months allows me to take the time to really work with her without us both feeling pressured to get so much done. If this ends up needing to be a longer term solution, I will eventually just move ds forward, but if it's short term...what do you ladies think?

[farmfamily]

I like your new idea better. I was going to post last night, but didn't have time. Basically, I was going to point out that Bigger and Preparing are considered the most teacher-intensive years in HOD. You may well have to split them up at some point, but if you can possibly keep them together a little longer you will make things easier all around IMO. It is much easier to just practice one Bible verse, do one activity, project, history reading, etc. for both of them.

That said, I had two in Bigger last year, and eventually I did split them and do as you talked about at first. They split around Unit 25 I think. This was b/c my oldest, then almost 10, was becoming more difficult to work with (moody) and, since she reads at a high school level, was fully ready to do her own reading. Essentially however, I was able to hand her the Bigger guide and she did it almost entirely independently. When she finished she was ready to go straight to CTC with no trouble. My younger one was still in the ERs (she struggled with reading), and it was a challenge to complete Bigger as written (though she did do all of it).

In your case, unless your son is extremely independent and able to do nearly all of it independently (in which case he may fit better in Preparing), you will be torn between the two of them if you split them up. If they are anything like mine at that age, they will both be either clamoring for your attention, or wandering off if you don't have your eye on them. Since Bigger is such a lot of work for Mom, I think of all the HOD guides it is one of the best to keep kids with similar skills together if you can.

I like "temporary combining" - I have elected to combine my younger daughter who already finished Bigger with her little brother in Beyond this year even though she has already done that guide. I am beefing it up (adding R&S 3, dictation, poetry copywork in cursive, notebooking, mapwork, & more science readings). If she didn't have a brother in Beyond, I would have done Preparing half-speed, but this way I think it makes good use of my time, as you point out, to have them work together on some subjects. I'm pretty sure I will eventually split these two, but now, when they both need me so much, it seems a good time to keep them together.

My oldest is thriving with the independence in CTC. From this experience, I think the best time to uncombine is when they can be much more independent (i.e. CTC on up).

If necessary, to make things easier for your dd, I would drop cursive and even DITHOR (just practice reading) in order to continue with Bigger combined with your ds. She can always pick those things up again when they uncombine. I had my younger dd do cursive last year and regretted it. It seemed a burden to her by the end of the year. She completed Cheerful Cursive, but it would have been less stressful for us both if she had done it this year instead, I think. She is now 8.

One other point - I have an extremely artistic dawdler too (actually my oldest). I think that combining was very beneficial to her b/c her sister showed her day in and day out that there was another way to do school - and be finished quicker! In my experience combining makes slow kids eventually learn to work faster b/c they don't want to left doing school long after the other one has finished.

Just a few thoughts - I hope something is helpful to you!

[bethelmommy]

So many good thoughts farmfamily, thank you. Dh and I both appreciate your insight. In retrospect, I wish I would have held off on cursive with dd. She really wasn't ready, but wanted to keep up with her older brother who started early because his OT recommended he do so. She did OK until we moved up to capitals and the divided lines started disappearing. That slowed her way down. I have cut her back to half a page a day as we finish out.

I do agree that older ds's diligence with schoolwork is a good example for her. In fact, I know that is why she has kept pace for so long. They used to share a room and when ds woke up, she would as well and would come upstairs and start work when he did. The quiet and lack of distraction was good for her. She did not get as much done as ds and frequently had more errors to correct, but there was less for her to do later in the day and the discrepancy in how they approach their work was less noticeable. Now that they do not share a room, she sleeps in later and even when she wakes up early, she is less motivated to come upstairs and start work. So, ds finishes school by 10:30am and dd still has 30 min (which somehow takes an hour or more) of school left to do.

You have given us much to consider. Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts

[8arrows]

I never split unless absolutely necessary. There is just not enough of me to go around, and I don't like being on different time periods. I like to preread what the children are reading, and I can't do that with everyone reading everything different. It is just logistically too many books to juggle as well. This year I have to split the older three into 2 groups to get world history in before my daughter graduates, but otherwise I have been able to combine them. I also combine another set of three. I like the new idea of Bigger half-speed with extensions for the older. In the end, it comes down to family dynamics and personality. I just don't enjoy school when we are all studying different history. It becomes drudgery instead of , "That was so exciting what we learned today!" They have math, English, music, etc. at their own pace. Combining Bible, history and science saves us sanity.

[MomtoJGJE]

See for us it's exactly opposite. They really thrive having their own thing. When someone is having to wait on someone else, or one is struggling to do the thing that comes easily for someone else (even if it's because of age and expected) then it becomes drudgery here. It becomes "do we HAVE to do this? Can't we just do something else? Why do we have to do this today?" And they don't retain much of anything. That's what happens when we take a break from HOD and do unit studies all together. It just becomes box checking.

When they all have their own thing they are able to engage about it. They are able to tell siblings about what they learned. And then later on, when a younger one is doing the history or science that they remember doing, everyone gets all excited about it.

So that just goes to prove that everyone has to do what is best for their own family. Take all advice with a grain of salt and figure out how it would work with your personalities.

[mommybelle]

Since your daughter is still very young at 7 yo, you may could consider going back to LHFHG and just beefing it up for the right side plans. For the Biblical history (on the left side), you could use the 1st grade Bible or even your own Bible (instead of a child's version). Then when you get to the American History, you could use some of the Optional Literature Supplements listed in the back. This is also listed for the Biblical History, but may be harder to find at a public library. You may could find it at a church library though. You could add your own copywork (Bible verses, etc) to beef up the Fine Motor Skills for her. Then you could return to Bigger after LHFHG. Just a completely different idea to consider.

[my3sons]

There is such wise advice here! You are wise to really take time to consider this decision. I have a question for you... looking at the BHFHG Plans, what could ds enjoy and do well with independently? For example, here is a portion of a past post by Carrie about how BHFHG can be made more independent for older dc...

When we did Bigger Hearts with our son, we looked at it as a year of training him to read from the guide and to do his own readings. This really helped my son be quite independent and was excellent preparation for learning how to follow written directions!

I had him do his own history readings and science readings (because CM says that a child of 9 who is able to read his/her own books should) and mine could. I had him get me when he was done reading and we did the follow-up activity together. However, before coming to get me, he was responsible for reading the directions for the activity (in the bottom left box) and getting everything ready for me as best as possible so that when I arrived, we were ready to go! He did his timeline, art, notebooking, and vocabulary (eventually) on his own, reading right from the guide. I just checked them when he was done. He practiced his Bible verse on his own and did his Bible verse copywork on his own. He also read over any questions in the Bible study box, and thought about the answers prior to me coming to discuss with him. Then, we did the Bible Study discussion. We listened to the hymns at lunch with all of the kiddos and me singing along.

My son did Cheerful Cursive on his own, following the schedule in the guide. He often read over his English 2 lesson and was started on it by the time I joined him. We always did at least half together though, to make sure that he got it. He always began his math on his own and I would go over the textbook lesson with him after he'd looked it over.

I did formally set aside a specific time each day to teach Drawn into the Heart of Reading, as its such an important area to make sure kiddos are thinking beneath the surface of what is read and learning to read with discernment.

My son honestly did the science completely independently, with me just checking in with him to make sure he did his lab sheets correctly and seeing that he had performed the experiment correctly. I did listen to his oral narrations with the science book in hand. Sometimes, he narrated to a younger sibling (with me looking over his shoulder).

The Extension Pack readings are meant to be done independently.

These are just my thoughts, and you will certainly know best, however I wanted to give you some food for thought on some ways to still cover the skills that are woven within Bigger Hearts while making it more independent.

I wonder what your thoughts are about some of this? Would maybe getting ds his own BHFHG guide and implementing some of these more independent ways of doing it help? It could be done half-speed or full-speed with these ideas.

No matter what - I would have dd go half-speed in BHFHG. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[jenn in nc]

There is such wise advice here! You are wise to really take time to consider this decision. I have a question for you... looking at the BHFHG Plans, what could ds enjoy and do well with independently? For example, here is a portion of a past post by Carrie about how BHFHG can be made more independent for older dc...

This is exactly what we did with my daughter last year and it was a fantastic year. She is finishing up Bigger and so excited to start Preparing soon. It's a great option!

[bethelmommy]

Thank you all for talking (or writing) this out with me . It is so nice to get some outside perspective. I really identify with Melissa's (8arrows) post. It is easiest for me to continue to combine for many of the reasons she stated and would be the most relaxing for us overall. My only hesitation in continuing this route is if it means I'm really holding back my son.

In looking over Julie's (my3sons) post and the guide, I think that ds could complete most of Bigger independently after some initial training of expectations. He already completes cursive, most of grammar, math and DITHOR worksheets on his own. He is good with reading and following directions, can use a dictionary independently, and is able to get work done without a lot of supervision from me. He would likely need help with the art activities as that is not his strong suit, but the reading assignments, notebooking, bible study, etc...could easily be done. He would get tired with the increased writing, but would likely adjust after a few weeks.

However, even though he COULD complete most of the guide independently, I'm not sure he would want to. He does like school time with me and he also enjoys the projects, activities, and bible verses that he can do with his sister. In addition, he LOVES finishing school early ! So, this leads me back to wondering if adding in the extensions would be enough to challenge ds while we are at 1/2 speed for the combined subjects. Wow, I feel a bit like a dog chasing its' tail!

ETA: We do have duplicate copies of the guide, history, and science books, so letting ds work from his own guide is doable whether full or half speed.