looking for advice on placement and combining

[kris2786h]

Hi, I am bringing my second grade home this year from private school. He used abekas curriculum and did great with it academic wise, but it killed the love of learning for him. I was planning on putting him in bigger but... I would love for he and his younger sister to be combined. She is a beginning reader and has gone through mfw kinder and half of first grade, was thinking placement wise she would fit well in beyond. Is it possible to combine them in either of those somehow? Trying to find the fine line between challenging them both and not making my son's year too easy and therefore "boring", he likes to be challenged. On the other hand I don't want to frustrate my daughter either. I also have a 4 year old, an 18 month old and am having number 5 this Jan so I'm trying to simplify without skimping on their education. Any advice you can share with me?

[StephanieU]

How old is your 2nd grader? We are doing Beyond for 2nd grade, and it is working fine. Before coming to HOD, we had done Horizons for K. We have continued with Horizons math (we were already in 1 when we found HOD, and after looking at the placement chart, we decided to not switch the oldest to Singapore), and completed Horizons Phonics 1 with LHFHG. The books used in Beyond are definitely meaty enough for 2nd grade, as the publisher (CLP) lists them as 3rd-4th grade.
Also, how old is the younger one? Although Beyond isn't super challenging, the next guide (Bigger) is a big step up. I wouldn't want to have my child reach Bigger before 7yo.

[MelInKansas]

If you want to combine then you should combine in Beyond. You always combine in the guide that the younger/lower student places in and then add on difficulty for the older one. The History and activities are plenty meaty and interesting for a 2nd grader. Obviously you would have him in math and reading at his own level (the guide is set up for this anyway). You can easily add on things like R&S 2 for grammar, Cheerful Cursive for cursive if he is already doing well with print writing, and DITHOR for reading and literature study. You could also check out extra books from the library to enhance the history portion. But also I would encourage you to just enjoy things and not worry about the academic challenge. CM philosophy and HOD would say a child should have a chance to explore nature and enjoy play as this is the way they learn and love learning. Read him lots of great books. Go on field trips. Do nature walks. This would be a great way to "detox" him from sitting in a desk most of the day and doing workbooks. So don't worry about Beyond being too easy. My 2nd grader is finishing up Beyond, she has 8 weeks left. Bigger is a lot more work (as I recall from my older daughter's days in it). So we will go for the challenge when we get there but for right now we are just going to enjoy the end of Beyond.

[Nealewill]

I used Abeka up through 2nd grade for my oldest and MFW for my younger 2 (both of them did up through MFW 1st). So I am pretty familiar with those two programs.

I think Beyond would be a great fit for your two kids this year. That is what I did last year with my two youngest kids. They did Beyond and last year was our first year with HOD. It went great. You would want to adjust math to their levels and that is pretty easy to do. If your 7 year old is more advanced in math and needs a higher level than Beyond recommends, I would buy the Bigger manual as well. The bigger manual has hands on activities that align with the math. And then the following year when you do Bigger, you would let them know you already own the manual and they would give you a package discount for it if you bought the package. There are 2 separate spelling lists in the back of the Beyond manual. One is for 1st grade and the other is for 2nd grade. I know Abeka spelling is advanced but these lists in the back are the most common words that the kids will be using. So when you teach them the words, you want them to really remember them. I know Abeka moves fast. And I think 2nd grade spelling was a lot of review of 1st grade spelling from what I remember. They used the same common blends but they were just a little bit harder. That is how these 1st and 2nd grade lists are as well. They have the same blends but harder words for the older child. You may want to add in the R&S 2nd grade grammar book if you wanted to for the older child but you definitely don't need to. If you did, you would do 1 lesson per day and the child would do most of it orally writing out only 1 exercise at most per day. As for reading, Abeka and MFW 1st both cover a lot of phonics. As for your oldest, if he can read most of the Emerging Reader books well, then I would start him on level 2 books. If not, then I would go with the Emerging reader books. From what I remember, I would leave it up to you with Emerging Readers to decide where to start even with those. I found that my oldest had some reading challenges and had a lot of dyslexia symptoms although we never had her diagnosed. By the end of 1st grade though, I think she should have been ready to read things starting with Buffalo Bill or Prairie School by the end of 1st grade. You can do all of the Emerging Readers if you want also and just let him fly through them. As for your younger child, MFW 1st covers all the phonics rules too. So she would probably start with the Emerging Readers as well. The back of the guide has alternate reading books in it too. My youngest is an excellent reader but she gets stressed out if there are too many words on the page or the print is too small. She is reading ALL of the alternate readers because she need larger print and pictures. But my son just recently got to the point that he can read chapter books with no problem. So I would just vary their books and each child will be ready for chapter books when they are ready in their own time. Once that happens, they are then ready for DITHOR.

I just want to say welcome to HOD. I switched around a bit trying to find my perfect fit and I finally have! HOD is breath of fresh air for us and I hope you love it as much as I do.

[my3sons]

Hi, I am bringing my second grade home this year from private school. He used abekas curriculum and did great with it academic wise, but it killed the love of learning for him. I was planning on putting him in bigger but... I would love for he and his younger sister to be combined. She is a beginning reader and has gone through mfw kinder and half of first grade, was thinking placement wise she would fit well in beyond. Is it possible to combine them in either of those somehow? Trying to find the fine line between challenging them both and not making my son's year too easy and therefore "boring", he likes to be challenged. On the other hand I don't want to frustrate my daughter either. I also have a 4 year old, an 18 month old and am having number 5 this Jan so I'm trying to simplify without skimping on their education. Any advice you can share with me?

Hi kris2786h, and welcome to the HOD Board! The ladies are doing a super job of chatting through options here! I am so thankful for each and every one of their responses, especially in this very busy season when Mike, Carrie, and I depend on them to help others with their wisdom on this board. I agree, if combining, from what you have shared so far, Beyond would be the guide to use. Bigger Hearts can be used to beef up LA and math for your ds very easily. Many, many moms are doing this. If you do get a chance to look at the placement chart and share about each of your dc in regard to the first page (reading, writing, grammar, math), that would help us fine tune advice to your family. Here is a link to the chart...
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

Then, we will share even more specifically what may work best for you, as it will become clearer and clearer in light of the chart's findings. Looking forward to hearing more!

In Christ,
Julie

[kris2786h]

Thank you for all your replies, my son is about to turn eight this month and my daughter is six and a half. I did look at the placement chart and Mr son is definitely placing in the bigger program. He had been through a year of using shurley grammar and knows more about grammar then I ever did in first grade, is a confident reader who did not need anymore formal phonics but does need spelling help. He was already beginning to learn multiplication in first grade and was used to writing a book report a week, so he is used to writing as well. My daughter has had a much more gentle approach to learning and is in the middle of phonics instruction, and is also afraid of a lot of words on one page or too big of a book but she's getting there. She actually likes to write, likes math and is pretty ready for "first grade work" I think but has not had any formal grammar or spelling etc. I hope that helps ... thanks again for the help.

[Nealewill]

Have you ever considered not combining? When I first started homeschooling I had never ever ever ever considered not having my kids combine. I actually found HOD because they had combine ages on their website. But when I called them, I realized that by the time they got to Preparing, the kids were 1/2 way independent. And all of the levels up from that were meant to be done very independently. Wow! That is going make this each individual level thing so much easier on me! And with HOD, I didn't realize how they worked skill building into their programs. With every level, the child focuses on more and more skills. I never realized that. So their "level" is actually very important when placing a child." HOD recommends placing similarly leveled children in the same program.

With your younger daughter, have you thought about placing her in Beyond and then placing your son in Bigger? It actually is probably a lot more doable than you think, especially if you switch every product over to the HOD recommended products. I would say your school day would last no more than 4 hours at the very most. Beyond took me about 1.5 hours a day to complete max. Bigger takes me about 2.0 hours of my time max. You could combine the kids for story time easily because both will be reviewing the 9 genres of literature through out the year. But your kids would separate for everything else. Also, since your dd is on the younger end of the guide, you could go at 1/2 speed for a little while with her. This would give her time get the reading practice in. And it would give you time to focus on your son getting him settled in Bigger.

What are your thoughts about that?

[kris2786h]

Yes I have thought of separating them because they really are very different as far a skill levels but I'm not wanting to overwhelm myself when the new little one arrives. I have looked into a curriculum that I can combine them more easily but I'm not wanting to teach the ancients right now in history, I just personally feel that isn't something I want to get into just yet otherwise I would probably use the story of the world for a history spine for both of them because I can easily combine them. Is there a good blog that anyone knows about that can help me visualize what our day would look like having many kids in different levels? Next year my four year old will join in on the fun and that will be three guides! Then we have two more in the line up to think about as well so I'm not sure if having them each in their own guide would work well for us long term. I really like HOD's book choices and how everything is intertwined so I would like to make this work well for each of my kids...and me!

[Nealewill]

I am really hoping someone else weights in on this I am not ignoring you I personally chose to separate my kids because they aren't at the same level. I actually found it much less stressful to have them separate than together. I found that when I had them together, I was constantly having to modify things. Now, I am running 3 guides and I find it pretty easy to do honestly. And while nothing is perfect and no plan is perfect, I find that having them separate is much better for my family.

And honestly, my youngest 2 actually would have been good candidates to keep together. But I ended up not doing that because in Ohio, the homeschool laws are more strict and I didn't want to have to modify any upper levels. So elected to split them all up so that once they reach 9th grade, they will hopefully be ready for the WG guide and can just follow the plans to a "T." But even with my two younger kids, I found that I could have kept them together but it is really nice getting the one on one time with them.

I only have 3 kids though. And my kids are older [than yours]. I do work from home quite a few hours per week and we are BUSY! So I hope my opinion counts for something. I know it isn't the same as having a baby but I feel like I need to maximize my curriculum so that I can get it done well and efficiently. Praying someone else might weight in on what they did. Also, I know that if you contact HOD over the phone, they are wonderful and extremely helpful.

[my3sons]

Thanks for sharing more about your kiddos! If you combine, you should definitely use Beyond Little Hearts and beef up for your ds using Bigger Hearts... LA and Math. Your description of your dd shows BHFHG is way too much for her right now, and I think trying to combine her with her older brother in BHFHG would be very stressful for her and for you. I know you'd mentioned that ds did a book report for writing, but that was weekly. There really is quite a bit of writing in BHFHG, and it's done daily. Here is a description of the writing in BHFHG, written by Carrie...
As far as choosing between "Beyond.." and "Bigger..." goes, the amount of writing varies quite a bit between Beyond and Bigger. Bigger requires more writing in the areas of a once a week history notebooking assignment, a once a week science experiment sheet and a once a week science notebooking entry, along with once a week copywork of a Bible verse, 1-3 vocabulary cards each week, cursive handwriting practice daily, and daily grammar instruction with written practice. It also provides a choice of spelling or dictation passages.

Your ds would be writing quite a bit each day, and the above description isn't including Drawn into the Heart of Reading's writing done in the Student Notebook, which he'd also be doing.

If your ds did Beyond... with BHFHG's beef-ups, this would be his writing...
Daily copywork of classical poetry
daily cursive handwriting practice
daily grammar instruction and written practice
dictation passages daily
Drawn into the Heart of Reading Student Workbook about 3 x's a week with upper level reading and discussion questions, etc.

Add to this upper level math, and I wonder if Beyond with beef-ups is probably enough? If you are reading this and thinking, 'no, it is still not enough,' then I 100% think Nealewill's idea is the way to go. Separating would simply be easier then, as ds is quite far ahead of dd, and dd is a sweet little gal who is not one to thrive in stressful, challenging, keeping up with big brother type settings.

So, if you can answer sharing which of these two scenarios seems to describe the situation, and you feel after reading through all this that ds really does need to do BHFHG, and we know dd needs to do Beyond already, then we will all gladly chat through easy ways to make multiple guides work well for you! But before we do that, I wanted to make clearer the amount of writing in BHFHG, as well as the amount of writing ds would be doing anyway with the Beyond/Bigger Heart's beef-up option. HOD is soooooo worth this little time put into placement! We've had 12 years of loving HOD in our home. I can't wait for you to get to enjoying your HOD journey, and either of these options are wonderful ones!

In Christ,
Julie

[agstefko]

I would totally agree with doing Beyond with the 2 of them. It is a great year and both of them will learn a lot. I just had #5 and both my kids fit in different guides but I can't handle that right now so they are working together and both are learning a lot and doing great. I know I may have to adjust some things in the future, but if you start in Beyond now the next year you will have extensions to use in Bigger and for now you could use your library for some interest based learning for your older one if you think it is needed

[Nealewill]

So glad others weighted in I am a combining failure LOL (I combine my two youngest last year and that is when I discovered my love of separateness). And that is why I am not so good with advice for combining kids.

Just wanted to say I am praying you have a wonderful year and excited for you for the change in pace. I know for myself, it was SUCH a blessing when we switched to the more Charlotte mason type of education. My kids actually love school now and I love how much they retain from doing school. HOD really is a WONDERFUL program. My two youngest did Beyond last year and they still remember much from completing it.