Does Resurrection to Reformation go along w/ MFW RtR?

[Gods servant]

I'm reposting this from the RTR board. I think this is supposed to be on the Main Board.

I am a mother of 5 (3 yo - 15 yo) and am trying to figure out our curriculum for next year. I had already bought all the MFW Rome to the Reformation for my kids to do two years ago, but then we had some foster kids thrown into our family, so it had to wait. This last year, they have been gone and we have been doing 3 HOD guides (our first year doing HOD). I am looking to this Fall and wondering if I do the MFW RtR, if this Resurrection to Reformation guide would be a good add-on for my, will be 12 yo son. Would that be overkill? Like doing 2 curriculums side-by-side? I love how HOD has the independent work for them to do and he needs a lot more practice with that, besides all the other wonderful things that are part of this guide, but I also want to do something that is manageable. Any thoughts?

[mommyofmany]

I haven't done those guides yet - but I can't imagine doing two guides for one child. HOD's guides are so rich and full - I think it would be way too much, for you and him. Hopefully ladies w/experience in Res to Ref will chime in soon.

[Gods servant]

The two guides wouldn't be just for my son. I am going to do MFW with ALL of my kids (they recommend it for 2nd-8th graders) and they do recommend extra Literature guides and Science curriculum to beef it up for 7th and 8th graders to do. The main idea would be that the whole family would be doing one guide. Instead of doing the extras that they suggest, I was thinking about adding the HOD guide. My oldest dd will have to also supplement with her own things since she will be in 10th grade.

[mothermayi?]

The two guides wouldn't be just for my son. I am going to do MFW with ALL of my kids (they recommend it for 2nd-8th graders) and they do recommend extra Literature guides and Science curriculum to beef it up for 7th and 8th graders to do. The main idea would be that the whole family would be doing one guide. Instead of doing the extras that they suggest, I was thinking about adding the HOD guide. My oldest dd will have to also supplement with her own things since she will be in 10th grade.

Hi,

I used MFW RTR last year before coming to HOD . Are you saying you would like to have all of your kids in MFW RTR but instead of the Progeny Press guides, Apologia General or Physical Science for 7th or 8th grade, and All-In-One English/Applications of Grammar, you would use HOD's RTR to cover these areas? I just want to make sure I understand correctly .

If so, HOD uses Rod and Staff for English grammar and DITHOR for reading so you wouldn't need the HOD RTR package for these two classes. If you wanted to use HOD's science, you can purchase the HOD RTR guide and the science package.

As you know, there are many skills woven throughout each of the subjects taught throughout a HOD guide so you would miss a lot of the built-in language arts.

I think it is possible to use R&S grammar, DITHOR, and HOD's science alongside MFW RTR. Would you also use HOD's recommendation for composition: IEW Medieval History-Based Writing? Or would you use MFW's recommendation of Writing Strands? This is something else to consider.

MFW RTR workload is very different from HOD RTR. Another item of interest is whether you would want to continue with MFW RTR after receiving HOD RTR and pouring yourself into the meat and beauty of its teachings . .

[8arrows]

I have used both. I think using both with one student would be overkill. Your older child could do HOD while you did MFW with your youngers (that way everyone is on the same time period), but I would not have the child do both. If your heart is set on MFW, you should definitely buy some of the great HOD books to throw in for your older child's book basket! The previous poster did have a great point about using the grammar, spelling, reading, writing, and science from HOD. That would work! And then you may just not be able to put HOD down!

[sltress]

Also MFW RtR goes to the 1600's while HOD Res to Ref goes to the 1700's. I don't think they start at exactly the same point in history either.

[mothermayi?]

Also MFW RtR goes to the 1600's while HOD Res to Ref goes to the 1700's. I don't think they start at exactly the same point in history either.

Yes, HOD RTR is RESURRECTION to Reformation while MFW RTR is ROME to Reformation .

[Nealewill]

I agree with 8arrows. I actually came from MFW and I was looking at HOD to complement the MFW program. After I got done looking through the catalog I had some very important decisions to makes. I personally knew doing both would just be too much work. After I called HOD, they explained their program and its set up to me more fully. I saw how doable it would be for me to complete HOD instead of MFW. I decided I liked the book selection better with HOD. I liked that everything was at my kids individual level rather than just trying to have everyone do everything together. So for us - we had to pick. There are areas I thought I would miss from MFW - like having everyone together and doing school together. But actually - I don't miss it at all. I am loving having them do their own thing and do everything at their own level. So I would say doing both might feel like overload once you get started.

[Gods servant]

Thank you for all the replies. They are so appreciated. I love the different ideas. To answer MotherMayI's questions:

Are you saying you would like to have all of your kids in MFW RTR but instead of the Progeny Press guides, Apologia General or Physical Science for 7th or 8th grade, and All-In-One English/Applications of Grammar, you would use HOD's RTR to cover these areas?

If so, HOD uses Rod and Staff for English grammar and DITHOR for reading so you wouldn't need the HOD RTR package for these two classes. If you wanted to use HOD's science, you can purchase the HOD RTR guide and the science package.

I think it is possible to use R&S grammar, DITHOR, and HOD's science alongside MFW RTR. Would you also use HOD's recommendation for composition: IEW Medieval History-Based Writing? Or would you use MFW's recommendation of Writing Strands? This is something else to consider.

I was planning on using R&S grammar for my ds no matter which curriculum we go with because I love the straight-forward simplicity and the completeness of it much better than ILL or All-in-One English. For Reading, we would EITHER do DITHR OR BJU and add in a bunch of books from HOD and Sonlight for the Book Bucket. We would probably do the devotions from HOD either way. For Science, we would EITHER do HOD (Earth Science and Astronomy), OR MFW (Anatomy and Astronomy), but switch out the Apologia Astronomy for Apologia Anatomy because my ds has already done the Astronomy.

For Writing I am very undecided. My ds is not very creative when it comes to writing. We tried Writing Strands for a short time, but his older sister's work was so much better than his. I've done BJU Writing with his older sister, but it was so very Teacher intensive for me and then it comes with the Grammar, which we already have covered with R&S. The thing about IEW is that to me it feels so stifled and controlled. Everything is the same time after time - same voc. words again and again, -ly word in every paragraph, 'because' sentence in each paragraph, 'who/which' clause in each paragraph etc. I have to say I gave in to it just for this year though because our co-op always teaches IEW every year and I figured it wouldn't hurt him too much to take it one year and it would lessen my load some as I try to get my next two up to par in Reading. He actually did o.k. with it. I love that the Medieval Writing Lessons would go along with his History, but I am concerned that he will develop a very boxy style of writing that will be set if he does it for two years. Also, I'm concerned about how much Teacher time would be involved, seems how our co-op taught it to him this year (although I did help him with his Rough Drafts some and his Final Drafts).

I guess I was looking at adding the HOD more for the Read-Alouds and History part. I would have all the kids together for MFW, but then just do HOD with my ds and probably his younger sister. One of the main reasons I was trying to see if I could do both was what MotherMayI said:

As you know, there are many skills woven throughout each of the subjects taught throughout a HOD guide so you would miss a lot of the built-in language arts.

Another item of interest is whether you would want to continue with MFW RTR after receiving HOD RTR and pouring yourself into the meat and beauty of its teachings . .

and the fact that I love how Carrie interweaves Christ throughout the whole curriculum! Also, my older two kids need a lot of help to learn the discipline of working independently and I love HOD for that. I don't want to miss out on anything, but I also don't want to be so overwhelmed that we can't get through it.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

[Gods servant]

I have used both. I think using both with one student would be overkill. Your older child could do HOD while you did MFW with your youngers (that way everyone is on the same time period), but I would not have the child do both. If your heart is set on MFW, you should definitely buy some of the great HOD books to throw in for your older child's book basket! And then you may just not be able to put HOD down!

I agree with 8arrows. I actually came from MFW and I was looking at HOD to complement the MFW program. After I got done looking through the catalog I had some very important decisions to makes. I personally knew doing both would just be too much work. After I called HOD, they explained their program and its set up to me more fully. I saw how doable it would be for me to complete HOD instead of MFW. I decided I liked the book selection better with HOD. I liked that everything was at my kids individual level rather than just trying to have everyone do everything together. So for us - we had to pick. There are areas I thought I would miss from MFW - like having everyone together and doing school together. But actually - I don't miss it at all. I am loving having them do their own thing and do everything at their own level. So I would say doing both might feel like overload once you get started.

Thank you so much for this!! It means a lot to hear from people who have done this before and thought about what I was considering! I really had to sit down and ponder what you said. I worked on it until 3:30 a.m. this morning. And after all the work and research and comparisons, I think I have some sort of plan. Let me know what you think of this.

It does seem that to use HOD to complement MFW would be too much. In addition, when I thought of using MFW just for my younger two, I realized that it really is not at my youngest ds age level (turning 7 in Aug.). So, in order to all cover the same History these are my thoughts:

For oldest ds (will be 12yo in July, but a bit behind in school): HOD Art, MFW Music Appreciation, HOD History (economy) plus just 2 books from MFW ("Augustus Caesar's World" and "Galen and the Gateway to Medicine"), HOD Devotions & Philippians CD, Starting Chess (MFW), Make a Castle (MFW), HOD Medieval Writing (?), DITHR (hope to find books that go w/ History at his reading level) & possibly BJU Readers, R&S 5, SWR Spelling, HOD Dictations, Right Start Math, HOD Read Alouds (Basic), and undecided for Science - but definitely Apologia Anatomy for part of it.

For next dd and ds (9yo somewhat behind and will be 7yo in Aug. right on track): Core 1&2 (B&C) from Sonlight, Apologia Astronomy for 15 weeks, then Apologia Anatomy for the rest of the year with 12 yo brother (or perhaps just MFW Anatomy if Apologia is too advanced for 7 yo.), BJUP Reading & Hand. for both (2 different levels), possibly add-on DITHR for oldest dd (will be reading at 2nd/3rd grade level in Fall), "Little Pillows" (HOD) and possibly "Hymns for a Kid's Heart" (HOD), R&S 2, SWR Spelling or BJU Spelling (2 different levels), Right Start Math Level C, MFW Music Appreciation, Writing undecided ? for 9 yo

In addition, we would do "English from the Roots Up" as MFW lays it out for Vocabulary and Lamp & Quill Bible together as a family. I also have 12yo ds enrolled in a 6th Grade Economics class at Freedom Project Education (FPE) in the Spring that 15yo dd would listen in on (I'm thinking about dropping this, but it seems so good to help him understand what is happening in America today).

I'm still undecided about oldest dd (will be 15yo in June/ 10th Grade - avid Reader, gifted Writer and Linguist), but she will be doing World History and possibly listening in to some of Resurrection to Reformation that I do with ds. She will either do her History with HOD World History guide to come out, or with FPE online Homeschool classes just for the World Hist. part and Latin II.

Thanks again for all the help. You ladies are great. If you have time, please let me know what you think of this.

[Nealewill]

I think that looks pretty great. I admire people who are so eclectic. One thing that I think you may also enjoy is the Exploring the History of Medicine by Tiner. My oldest dd is doing CTC next year with HOD and they are reading Galen, An Illustrated Adventure in Human Anatomy and Exploring the History of Medicine for that area of science. I already ordered my books in and looked at several of them, one of which is the History of Medicine by Tiner. Great book is all I have to say! SO INTERESTING. Your 12 yo could definitely read it alone and I think would probably highly enjoy it.

And I actually researched using quite a few of the Apologia things prior to finding HOD. There are some of them I love - like Botany, Flying Creatures, Zoology 3, and Astronomy. But my co-op did the Human Body one a few years ago and I wasn't overly impressed. I also think it would be hard for 7 yo to do. I don't know if you are going to any conventions or not but I also read through the book An Illustrated Adventure in Human Anatomy (again - part of the CTC package) and it looks excellent. Plus, oldest is reading to herself rather me reading it to her. And I think she will learning a ton. Just a thought for you as well.

And I think you could easily do DITHOR with all of them. I am not sure how well your 7 yo reads but it is a great program! My oldest DD has had so much fun with it this year. I am so glad we did it. I look forward to when everyone can participate in the daily and activities. That is one thing I teach together with HOD. I will just have all the kids in the same genre and then we can all follow the same plans.

And I see you use RightStart. I do too But my oldest dd is switching to Singapore math next year. I am finishing level E this year with my oldest and I feel like they should have created a level in between E and G. Plus, I don't think we are going to do G. I found out that it is very similar to High School Geometry topics and relies heavily on a calculator for the last half of the level. And I also found that they weren't practicing many math calculations or word problems that kids typically would need to focus on prior to pre-algebra. So we are switching. It will be a change but we are pretty excited for the change. And since Right Start basically covers everything in Singapore up through level 5B, we are going to do all the practice sheets in the TM starting at 4B and then complete the Singapore Challenging Word Problems books for level 4 and 5 and then move straight into Level 6A after that. I am not sure how far your oldest is with RightStart but both MFW and HOD recommend Singapore and Singapore has a very similar scope and sequence. I don't know if you have tried Signapore or not in the past but it is very pictorial in its teaching where is RightStart is hands on and teacher led. I am actually blending level D with level 3A/B next year for my son and then he is probably going to go straight into Singapore 4A instead of doing RightStart E. My youngest though - she is going to stick with RightStart for a while. But I am getting her the challenging word problem books to do as well. This summer, I going to let my youngest work through the Singapore 3A and 3B student books because she is gifted, she loves a challenge and I need to keep her busy. But the only reason I mentioned the Singapore books is because I don't know if those might be a great resource for you as well. I find I like the script, hands on activities and games in RightStart but I love the challenging problems and the deeper thinking involved in Signapore. I also love that they teach the kids how draw what they are thinking if they are trying to solve it. That is one thing that frustrates me with RightStart. My son has a difficult time with language so when I draw pictures with him from the Singapore books, he can see it right away and solves the answers so quickly! But since he struggles with words in general, Singapore is also good because it has a ton of word problems and the language in general challenges him too. But I do also like the discovery learning in RightStart so I like having them "discover" it but then Singapore helps them go deeper once they have discovered it.

[8arrows]

I will need to reread through this later, but one of the things you were looking for is simplicity. When I read your list, I am concerned that you may not be simplifying. I would immediately say not to do BJU reading and DITHOR with the youngers. That would be too much. I am also seeing some other overlaps, but I need to teach the children right now. What did you do this year? That might help us be more specific.

[Gods servant]

One thing that I think you may also enjoy is the Exploring the History of Medicine by Tiner. I already ordered my books in and looked at several of them, one of which is the History of Medicine by Tiner. Great book is all I have to say! SO INTERESTING. Your 12 yo could definitely read it alone and I think would probably highly enjoy it.

And I actually researched using quite a few of the Apologia things prior to finding HOD. There are some of them I love - like Botany, Flying Creatures, Zoology 3, and Astronomy. But my co-op did the Human Body one a few years ago and I wasn't overly impressed. I also think it would be hard for 7 yo to do. I don't know if you are going to any conventions or not but I also read through the book An Illustrated Adventure in Human Anatomy (again - part of the CTC package) and it looks excellent. Plus, oldest is reading to herself rather me reading it to her. And I think she will learning a ton. Just a thought for you as well.

Thank you for the recommendations. I will look at the Tiner book. Also, glad to hear about Apologia. I am planning on going to 2 or 3 Conventions this year, so I will try to look at the "Illustrated Adventure in Human Anatomy". My ds has already done Astronomy, Flying Creatures, Swimming Creatures and Land Animals at co-op and loved it, although I don't know how much of it he retains.

The crazy thing is that after reading several of the threads last night from people moving to HOD after finishing MFW CTG, I'm rethinking my son and wondering if I should indeed put him in CTC, rather than RTR. It would definitely be better for him skill-wise I think. He is just barely now starting to work independently and oftentimes only finishes part of the assignment and has to be reminded how to finish it. His writing skills could also use some help and then it would give him one year of something other than IEW before going back to IEW. I know we already covered much of the Greeks with MFW, but people say it is presented differently and does cover more History.

My biggest problem with this though is that I really have liked it when my kids are at least all on the same period of History - even if it has been with different curriculums (combos. of MFW and Sonlight). This year was the first year where everyone did different things and it didn't gel for me as well. Secondly, because this was our first year with HOD, my oldest dd didn't get to do the wonderful guides before Geography, so I was planning on her sitting in on my older sons Guides for at least the parts that I would be reading to him. If he did CTC this year, she would graduate before he did MTM and I especially love the President study from that year. I had bought a President puzzle and some other resource (that I can't remember right now) to teach her that a few years back, but our year got too full with trying to teach my ds to read.

And I think you could easily do DITHOR with all of them. I am not sure how well your 7 yo reads but it is a great program! My oldest DD has had so much fun with it this year. I am so glad we did it. I look forward to when everyone can participate in the daily and activities. That is one thing I teach together with HOD. I will just have all the kids in the same genre and then we can all follow the same plans.

I did have the three kids together and they really enjoyed the kick-off day for each genre especially. With my younger two, I was reading their books to them, but I think my dd will be ready for DITHR 2/3 this fall. I think my younger son will probably be doing Emerging Readers, unless he does those over the summer. We actually haven't really implemented the day-to-day part of DITHR. I have tried to have my oldest son do the worksheets that go with each book, but I haven't been able to find the time to do the other parts. Instead I've been giving a lot of Reading instruction to my younger two one-on-one.

I don't know if you have tried Signapore or not in the past but it is very pictorial in its teaching where is RightStart is hands on and teacher led. I am actually blending level D with level 3A/B next year for my son... I find I like the script, hands on activities and games in RightStart but I love the challenging problems and the deeper thinking involved in Signapore. I also love that they teach the kids how draw what they are thinking if they are trying to solve it. That is one thing that frustrates me with RightStart. My son has a difficult time with language so when I draw pictures with him from the Singapore books, he can see it right away and solves the answers so quickly! But since he struggles with words in general, Singapore is also good because it has a ton of word problems and the language in general challenges him too. But I do also like the discovery learning in RightStart so I like having them "discover" it but then Singapore helps them go deeper once they have discovered it.

How are you going to blend this for your son? I have been doing Singapore 1A/1B together with RS Level B this year with my younger two. During the summer, I sat and just wrote down the Singapore pages on the RS Lesson pages that they coincided with and my kids have done well with that. However, my older two kids don't work as well independently. They struggled to just finish the part of the RS page I left them with for each lesson. I wonder if Singapore with RS would help my ds though. He struggles with the Oral parts of RS, so I just write the problem down for him and have him solve it in his head (finally this year he can do that). He is more of a Black/White type of kid, but I wonder if the "pictures" of Singapore would help him. I don't think he can create pictures very well in his mind, but maybe seeing one might help. He is funny because his favorite pastime is to sit and talk to someone (so I would think linguistics or oral is his strength), yet when I try to get him to orally narrate, he answers with one or two words. It is similar with his writing. He isn't really into Sports, or physical activities (Kinesthetic), yet the only way I can get him to memorize a Bible Verse is if we put motions to it. And I mean I can have him read one verse and say it with me for 20 mins. and he will still not remember it, but the motions help him to finally get it, so we just start with that first now. I don't think he learns visually because he still struggles with comprehending a story that he is reading, perhaps because he can not picture it in his mind. He just this year started to be able to read silently. It wasn't until he was 9 that he would even listen to me read a book. So he is a puzzlement to me.

[8arrows]

For oldest ds (will be 12yo in July, but a bit behind in school): HOD Art, MFW Music Appreciation, HOD History (economy) plus just 2 books from MFW ("Augustus Caesar's World" and "Galen and the Gateway to Medicine"), HOD Devotions & Philippians CD, Starting Chess (MFW), Make a Castle (MFW), HOD Medieval Writing (?), DITHR (hope to find books that go w/ History at his reading level) & possibly BJU Readers, R&S 5, SWR Spelling, HOD Dictations, Right Start Math, HOD Read Alouds (Basic), and undecided for Science - but definitely Apologia Anatomy for part of it.
_______
I think the above sounds fairly reasonable. I would not do both DITHOR and BJU readers, and I would choose either SWS or HOD dictation. I would not do the economics class because if you keep going with HOD, you will hit that in 2 more years.

Although HOD is wonderful, I would be careful about making your older child listen in on the guides she missed. The new World History guide will be plenty on its own.

I also understand needing to be on the same page in history. That may be a personality thing, but I can struggle with that as well. Since you already have MFW RTR, what if you just did the SOTW 2 from there with the youngers. ( I only say this because you are not considering an HOD guide for them anyway.) I would encourage written narrations at their levels so that when you are ready to put them in an HOD program, they would be ready. The next year you could put the 13 year old in Rev to Rev and the younger two in Bigger with extensions for the 10 year old and all be on the same history page. By the year after that, you will probably feel comfortable to keep going with Preparing and MTMM even though they are not the same history time period.

[8arrows]

After writing my last post, I saw that you thought your oldest son might fit better in CTC. If that is the case, use CTC. Again, I don't have a clear picture of what you have been using.