Combining with other curriculums

[melissa tullos]

I am looking into using Heart of Dakota (PHFHG) this coming year with my 8-year old dd. We are also considering Classical Conversations Foundation program as a sort of co-op. Have any of you done this? Would you recommend for or against? I love what I'm seeing in both curriculums and wonder if I can combine them without it being too confusing. Also my daughter is VERY social and will love being able to see friends once a week. CC is only 24 weeks long and also covers world history. Is the HOD curriculum designed to be one guide per year? My dd loves to read and do hands-on activities. I know she will love HOD!

[LovingJesus]

HOD is designed for one guide per year. It is also designed though that with your dd in Preparing at age 8 you would have an extra year to take a little longer per guide or finish a year early. There are 4 guides coming after MTMM for high school.

I have more questions than answers for you to think about:

How fast does your dd work?
How much outside class time will CC take per day? Do you want that much time added to the amount Carrie allots for Preparing?

My ds9 is doing online Veritas ancients with CTC. It does not confuse him and he loves it. They provide the information differently and for him it has worked well. The computer goes faster through ancients so I think CTC gives the slower balance it needs. Veritas provides other elements that benefit. It adds one half hour per day.

I hope this helps in your decision. The Lord's lead through prayer is always where I find the clearest direction for these decisions.

[MomtoJGJE]

I have not personally done Classical Conversations, but the people I know who DO go with that program... that is pretty much what they DO. They have a couple of hours each day of work just for their co-op that meets once a week. I'm personally not willing to add that to what we already do. HOD covers everything.

Now with that said, we do take part in an enrichment co-op our homeschool group does... but it's pretty much for fun and just extra stuff. I also tend to match it up somewhat with what they are learning.... like Jayden this past year did Preparing and is about to start CTC, so she took Ancient Egypt and she also took US Geography just because she likes geography (took world last year to "prepare" for a world history overview in Preparing) and the teacher. Grace finished Beyond and started Bigger this year and she took Early American. Julianna is in LHFHG but she took Folk Tales and Fairy Tales. But it still had her reading books and writing narrations.... well, filling in blanks, just like the Story Time box pretty much.

But there was very very little outside of the class time. In fact I think Jayden just had to write a paragraph pretending she was experiencing the plagues and then she had to write out the Ten Commandments at one point. And for Geography she had to study for map quizzes (5 minutes a day for a week five times during the year) and one oral report each semester (oral reports in this class are very basic and only last less than 5 minutes... it took her 30 minutes each semester to work on it) I don't think the others had anything? Oh, no, Grace had to make a "poster" about the Battle of Bull Run. And THAT is why I'm ok with doing it.... even though it makes me a bit stressed because I don't like something taking up pretty much a full day out of our week but I'm weird like that.

[my3sons]

Hello melissatullos, and welcome to the HOD Board! I think you are going to love PHFHG with your 8 yo - it is such an amazing guide both to teach and to learn from! Some of our very favorite memories, gains, and leaps in both academics and spiritual maturity can be linked back to our time in PHFHG. We truly loved Grandpa's Box and CHOW paired together - so powerful. The staircase timeline was another favorite and a super way to see the big events in history chronologically at a glance. Many of the Storytime read-alouds kept us in suspense, and it was tough not to read more - but then we could not wait to get back to our Storytime the next day. I LOVE that about HOD. It is solid, more than enough, but it makes sure not to overload dc so they come back the next day asking for more.

I wanted to let you know that you probably aren't getting many responses here because of this board rule...
This is the only "official" Heart of Dakota" board moderated by us. Since this board is sponsored by Heart of Dakota, we ask that you do not post links to other companies or other boards, promote other boards or groups, reference posts or threads from other boards, or post for the purpose of promoting a product that is not scheduled within the HOD guides.

In reading your post, I know it is not your intention to promote Classical Conversations, but instead to determine if it is a good idea to try to do both CC and HOD. I will respond to that portion of your post because I truly long for you to love your HOD years homeschooling. Having spoken with other families who have attempted to do both, I think it would not be a good idea to do CC along with HOD, unless the CC is extremely low key (which can vary based on groups, but often is more highly involved rather than low key). When I say low key, I mean you would attend the CC session and not have required work (or extremely minimal work) outside of the session you attended. The reason I'd caution you about this is because I have talked to many ladies at conventions that have tried to do both HOD and CC and ended up being overwhelmed, dropping one or the other, or skipping vital parts of HOD to try to keep up on CC's homework. Many times, those who have used CC come back to HOD a year later wanting to move on to a higher HOD guide than where they left off, but finding that their dc did not have the skills to do so, and having to go back to where they left off in HOD instead.

Many families seem to join CC as a social opportunity thinking of it as being similar to a co-op, when in many cases, CC is actually more like a full-time school program. CC has teachers teaching in a setting other than your home, and those teachers assign homework that often takes most or much of your time at home to do. In this regard, CC is more like a school than a homeschool, and therefore it often becomes what you do instead of homeschooling with your own curriculum, such as HOD. CC can also drive your dc's placement in HOD, as many families try to force an HOD placement that isn't as good of a fit to match the history time period being studied in CC. I am basing this on the many conversations I've had with ladies at various homeschool conventions across the nation through the years, but I do realize this is a generalization, and CC can vary. So, I'd definitely ask what the requirements are outside of the CC school setting, and if you find yourself saying, "Well, 'x' is covered in CC so I could drop 'x' from PHFHG, and 'y' is going to take a lot of time in CC, so I'll have to skip 'y' in PHFHG, and memorization is covered in CC, so I'll skip the Biblical discussions and Scripture work with my dc in PHFHG, and next year the CC historical time period is 'z' so I'll have to skip the next two HOD guides and pick a much harder HOD guide just to match 'z' time period in CC, and so on - then, you know you're actually choosing to do CC instead of HOD, which is something to truly ponder as this becomes a different school option than homeschooling in your home with you as the teacher making the decisions.

I can tell you are wanting your social dd to have some time to be with other dc in your homeschool week. There are many opportunities to meet this need other than CC. DD could be part of something outside of the home, such as a sport, a co-op, a cooking class, girl scouts, 4-H, church programs/activities, meet at a different park each week, etc. Or, dd could be part of something inside the home, such as a rotating play date with a good friend or friends or cousins, or a book club using DITHOR at your house with a group once a week, or a cooking class at your house each week, or a Bible Girl's Study at your house or at a rotating house each week, or a movie/pizza playdate rotating homes, or a board game club that meets at your house and has snacks/drinks together each week, etc. Choosing one activity that you have more control over that will not take too much time away from homeschooling and other duties at home (i.e. cooking, laundry, cleaning, errands, etc.) would probably make your homeschooling experience much more stress free, as you'd actually have time at home to homeschool.

Carrie had this to say in a previous thread in regard to CC and PHFHG...
The goal of the HOD board is not to help you use another curriculum or program in addition to HOD but rather to use HOD as your curriculum. While I know there are moms who use both HOD and Classical Conversations, it is not our intent that anything need be added to HOD outside of your own family's specific interests you would like to explore. We give you the 5th day of each week in our guides from Preparing Hearts on up in order to use as desired to customize HOD to fit your family.

I will say that after visiting with many, many moms at our conventions this past year who have tried doing Classical Conversations along with HOD, most have discovered that the two programs are much too full to do at the same time (and one or the other of the programs was not used to its fullest in order to allow time to complete the other). Several moms shared that they dropped all history related and science materials in order to do Classical Conversations and others shared that they used HOD mainly for the Bible/character portion which was not as strong in Classical Conversations as it is in HOD. Others shared that they were planning to take time off from HOD for a year to do Classical Conversations, in order to better match the history rotation of HOD to Classical Conversations the following year. It's important to note that when doing any of these options, the flow of the HOD guide is lost, children miss out on important key skills needed for the next HOD guide in line, and placement by a child's developmental standards falls by the wayside in order to better line up with a different program's history cycle. Each of these options also uses HOD as supplement, rather than as the core program, meaning you won't fully reap the benefits of using HOD. One HOD guide is meant to prepare children well for the next guide in line, both spiritually and academically. Yet, you won't fully realize that goal when dabbling in HOD.

It is also important to note that within HOD we include 35 science experiments in each of our guides from Preparing Hearts on up and 68 science experiment-type lessons in each of our guides from Bigger on down. This means there is no need to use another program to do experiments! We include 35 projects (lasting 3 days each) in our guides from Preparing on up and include daily hands-on activities in our guides from Bigger on down. We include drawing in all of our programs, with guided instructions in Preparing on up, which means you do not have to pursue this area outside of HOD unless desired. We include timeline work in every guide that corresponds directly to what students are studying with HOD. We also include creation of a portfolio or notebook as well (in Bigger on up). Music is included in every guide, relating directly to the Scriptures children are memorizing and applying to their lives weekly. I could go on, but you understand that I'm saying each HOD guide is a very full program in itself!

If you feel that the Lord is leading you to Classical Conversations, then by all means you should do that. However, I wouldn't try to tack HOD on top of it! The same is true if the Lord is leading you to HOD. One thing to ponder as you look at Classical Conversations (or any other curriculum) is how much emphasis on knowing the Lord and study of Scripture is found within the classes or the coursework? What resources are used in each area and do the accompanying plans bring out the Lord at the center of the studies? How much are you allowed choice of resources and placement based on customizing the program to meet your specific child's needs? Who has the responsibility of teaching your children, determining your schedule, and selecting your curriculum? How much emphasis is there on a child's habits, character, heart, and relationship with the Lord? These are good questions to ponder no matter which curriculum you use!

It is my understanding (from what others have shared with me) that these areas are not the primary focus of CC. It appears rather that the focus is on the classical model of education and on academics to that end. Whether this is true or not, it is wise to know and thoroughly research any option you are considering for your family. Our family's two top goals are to saturate our children's education in the Word of God and to focus on training our children's habits, character, and hearts so they can serve the Lord with their lives. Academics are also very important to us but fall within the framework of our top two goals. With that in mind, we find our HOD guides to be the fit we are seeking for our family.

In determining what is best for our family, I found it so helpful for my husband and I to write down a short list of general goals (approx. 10 or so) that we have for our children's home education. Once we had this list in hand, it was easy for us to see which books, opportunities, and curriculum best met our goals. It made it easier for us to select and narrow down our choices based on our goals. I refer to the list often as it helps me keep my compass pointing in the right direction for our family.

I'd encourage you to start with your goals, bathe them in prayer, and then choose what the Lord reveals to you as His plan for your family. I realize this may look different for each family, so only you will know what the Lord's best is for your situation.

Blessings,
Carrie

Here are some other comments...
From jenntracy...
I have heard that CC can be an intense co-op from those here in my area. Some really like it and some it is just not for them.
From what i have heard, it seems that if you were to do HOD, you would either have to slow HOD down to get everything out of it or, like some moms have said already, they didn't do all of the stuff from CC.

I do know CC is not something that would fit our family. To me it just didn't fit all that I wanted to do with HOD and how we want to learn. I also felt it would be to intense for me and my family. Mine are also younger . Last thing i need is more stress. But i know it has worked very well for some families. I really think it is great for families or totally not. That is just from what i have heard from those who have participated in my area.

My other issue is the cost. Can't afford to do both. Actually don't think i could afford CC alone.
The kind of co-op our family would like is very laid back so that we can just meet and establish good friends in the homeschooling community without so much work. More fun with a little learning ...
That is just our family though.

From sw1ssm1ss...
We did both this past year. I really like the idea of CC for the older grades--the Challenge program. And I thought that CC would check off a lot of boxes for us, if you will. I was looking for, let's see, accountability, socialization, memorization, hands-on science, music, and art. I got all of that, and I am satisfied. I felt a great sense of accomplishment at the end of the year celebration. But I am also tired.

To be fair, this year has been exhausting on many different levels. When I started CC, I had a 5 year old, an almost 3 year old, and a 3 month old. I was working about 20 hours a week as a tutor. It was my first year homeschooling. I'm not kidding, just getting myself and my kids from the parking lot to the classroom of CC felt like an endeavor, because I had to carry the baby, the cooler, and the diaper bags, while still making sure my 3 year old actually went into the building. So this probably wasn't the best year for me/us to do CC.

Also, I knew at the beginning of the year that I was picking two curricula--HOD and CC. I knew that would mean 194 days of school to finish kindergarten. I think I sort of forgot that a bit in the middle of the year and that it made it hard to focus on HoD and use it to the fullest, if that makes sense. Also, I started LHFHG in August, and we will probably finish in July.

If I were in your shoes, though, I would really consider it! Like I said, socialization, memorization, art, music...! I think it can accompany HOD fine. Sometimes, certain things even overlapped, which was nice. For instance, the timeline cards cover the history of the world, so that should touch on aspects of each child's curriculum.

I don't know how much you go in the car, but that was when my daughter and I really "did" CC. I got the audio memory work CD. Well worth the money, because it made the whole thing do-able for us. We would listen to the week's memory work, and I would stop the CD and have her repeat it. There are some thing you can't really do with the CD. The CD doesn't cover the Bible memory portion or the timeline cards. The CD does say the geography names, but without a map in front of you, I don't know how helpful that is.

Anyway, even if you don't go in the car too much, you could have them listen to the memory work on the CD each day during breakfast or lunch. I think, like several people said, CC can be as much as you want or not so much, but for me even a little bit was too much.

From mom2monkeys...
My friends who do CC say you just don't have time for your own core curriculum. If you want to add a couple extras, then you can, but it's a stretch for them to do so. It's very time consuming and CC is their curriculum now. I think it would over shadow all things HOD and you'd feel too stretched thin to add in HOD after doing all the CC stuff. That's just me and my group...but I hear it a lot!

There are lots of other types of homeschool classes. You could look into your local 4-H. Ours has a program called SEEK. It's a science "class" for homeschoolers, our local state parks have weekly homeschool classes, some of the churches have weekly classes as well...none of which require homework or for you to teach anything. There are nature centers with Wildlife and Fish & Game that have lots of weekly classes and such as well. Our Libraries have started a weekly homeschool meeting as well. Some sort of book club. There should be plenty of things out there. Oh, and if you find a local "social" homeschool group , you might find it to fit your needs. I'm the admin of just such a group and we have nature study meeting, park days and picnics, field trips, zoo trips, family cook outs, family movie nights, swimming trips, mom's night out, and we're considering starting a Keepers Club (Keepers and Contenders of the Faith). So much to do! I hope you can find just the right fit, either with CC or other options. If you look hard, you may find there are way more options that you first thought...that's what I learned after months of boredom!

I hope something here can help!
In Christ,
Julie

[melissa tullos]

Thank you so very much for the time you spent to reply to my question. It was very valuable to me. We will be praying about our decision. I think it really needs to be one or the other...not both. I think the idea of looking at our end goals is key. Thanks again and God bless.

[StillJulie]

After using HOD for five consecutive years now, I feel the desire to add anything to the guides diminish every year. I wish I would have always thought/believed that HOD is truly *enough* (because it is!).

I don't enjoy it (nor do any of the kids) when we add stuff (which I later decide was unnecessary) that just added stress, put undue pressure on us, etc... and all for naught.

I love HOD. It *is* complete. Part of its beauty/attraction (for me) is that it is all included.

[funkmomma71]

I was approached by a mom about joining her low-key "CC type" group and I have to tell you I was overwhelmed at the idea of adding all this extra stuff to what we already do. I would have dearly loved joining these moms, as I enjoy their company and we share many of the same goals for our children, BUT the time commitment not only the once-a-week meeting but also the preparation for the next class was a huge deterrent. In the end I said no, and haven't had a moment of regret since. Preparing is a very full program and really stands on its own. As a matter of fact, I believe all the HOD programs are sufficient on the own.

[amysconfections]

If you want a social aspect you can always start a fun Friday in your area. In our area we have a large homeschool group. Our group has a yahoo group for messages and information. Within the group we have whatever activities a mom wants to plan. We usually have Mom's night out once a month, park days whenever they can be scheduled, field day once a year, geography fair, children's theatre plays, field trips that moms schedule and head up, etc. Each activity is based on whether a mom wants to step up and plan. In the past we have had a boys club, American girls club, zoo clu( using bio boxes from our zoo to teach) , Missionary geography club, and science fair.

If you don't have a group like this then just start one. We charge a yearly $10 fee to cover costs. Each club is run independently charging what they need to for supplies and people choose what they want to sign up for. Some people are members of the group but don't end up doing any activities.