Another high school placement question

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blessedmomof4
Posts: 1138
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Another high school placement question

Post by blessedmomof4 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:49 pm

I had this in the middle of another thread, so I figured I'd better star over. My question has to do with the fact that due to many factors, my 8th grader is just finishing up CTC with extensions. She will be 14 this September and a 9th grader. She is a very bright girl and probably capable of much more than what I have required; the slow pace and inconsistency of work has had much more to do with family situations, a difficult pregnancy, birth of my preemie baby, me taking college courses, and my own general disorganization, etc. than with my daughter's capabilities. She can read high school level literature with comprehension. She is finishing up pre-algebra. Her written narrations are detailed and thoughtful, and often longer than required by CTC. She does the extension follow-ups without trouble. She is currently doing Rod and Staff English 6. She does DITHOR 6/7/8 with ease. She finishes her school day within 4.5 hours, including extensions and is quite self-motivated. She does a lot of creative writing and researching topics that interest her on her own time, and often we wind up adding many other things to her day because she wants to. I know that skipping guides is not usually recommended,and it goes against my instincts too, but I am wondering where to go from here with my bright daughter. I want her to be challenged enough but not overwhelmed. Should we go on to RtR with extensions, Rev to Rev with extensions, MTMM with extensions? Or just jump into the geography guide with no extensions? Where can I go from here where I don't have to "beef up"so much that it almost doesn't resemble HOD? I miss the way it was back when we did Bigger and Preparing as written and I didn't have to remember extensions or add other things. In retrospect I should have gone right to CTC when she finished Preparing, but since it was the middle of the school year, I did some "filler"until the next fall to save money. Now she has pretty much outgrown CTC, and otherwise would have been nearly finishing RTR by now, and the path ahead would be clearer. I have even considered leaving HOD altogether :( Any suggestions? P.S. I may also resume teaching my 15 year old who will technically be in 10th grade next fall, but has spent the past 4 months in public high school.
Lourdes
Wife to Danforth
2 grads 9/19/92,7/8/95
2 in charter school 1/31/98, 9/19/99
3 in Heaven 8/11/06, 8/18/10, 9/13/13
Future HODie is here! 9/14/12

Carrie
Site Admin
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by Carrie » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:07 pm

Lourdes,

Thanks so much for sharing a bit about your sweet daughter. :D It does sound like her language arts skills, math, and independent work skills warrant a move forward in guides. In looking ahead, I'm thinking that the jump ahead to the World Geography guide would be really huge when coming from CTC. I'd probably be inclined to lean more toward either Rev2Rev or MTMM. In helping us think through the options, I'm wondering whether she has she done all of DITHR 6/7/8 or just part of it? Also, has she done mainly Write With the Best as scheduled in CTC or has she had some other formal writing instruction? What about science? Has she been using the science in CTC? When looking at the placement chart, which do you think would fit her better, Rev2Rev or MTMM? :D If you get a chance to pop back, I'd love to visit with you about this. :D

Blessings,
Carrie

blessedmomof4
Posts: 1138
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by blessedmomof4 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:19 am

Thanks Carrie. For DITHOR 6/7/8, she will have finished half of it by the end of CTC. WWTB has been her only formal writing program other than the writing she had previously in Bigger and Preparing and writing instruction back in 4th and 5th grades in public school. She does a lot of creative writing on her own and writes very well. Her written narrations and summaries are done well, but she has not done essay or research type writing. She has been using the science in CTC plus a few outside kits and books as supplements. Looking at the placement chart, she fits well into MTMM especially for reading, writing, grammar and Bible. However, she would probably benefit from the history, state study,and signers study in Rev to Rev, though I don't think MTMM's history would be too difficult. The science in MTMM might appeal more to her because of the variety, as long as it isn't math-heavy, in which case Rev to Rev science might be better. She would do fine with the storytime and poetry in either guide. She is finishing up math essentials, so she would be ready for no nonsense algebra. I don't want to use extensions at this point, because I know that moving ahead to a higher guide will already lengthen the day. Looking at it this way, I lean toward MTMM. What do you think?
Lourdes
Wife to Danforth
2 grads 9/19/92,7/8/95
2 in charter school 1/31/98, 9/19/99
3 in Heaven 8/11/06, 8/18/10, 9/13/13
Future HODie is here! 9/14/12

Carrie
Site Admin
Posts: 8125
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by Carrie » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:57 pm

blessedmomof4,

Thanks so much for popping back to share your thoughts. It helps so much as we dialogue about possibilities for your daughter. In looking at what will be needed for her high school transcript, and in thinking that you want to move away from the extensions and more toward doing the guide as written that really helps move us closer toward a decision. :D

Since she already is a pretty good creative writer, I would lean more toward doing either Medieval History-Based Writing Lessons from RTR (if she went that route) or Write with the Best: Vol.II as scheduled in MTMM for her. I would also look toward having her complete the rest of DITHR 6/7/8 with higher level books prior to heading into the World Geography guide. I do think she could use some of the books from the DITHR 7/8 Girl or Boy Pack as her interest leads her. Just make sure not to choose books that we will be reading in the World Geography guide. :wink: As far as grammar goes, she is well suited to a move ahead in guides.

It sounds like her math will be on track too, for a higher level of science. In looking at science, I would be less inclined to do a beef-up of the Intro. to Chemistry in the MTMM and be more inclined to either go with the Physical Science in Rev2Rev (advanced version for credit in high school) or with the IPC in the World Geography guide. Both of those sciences will count for credit in the physical science area. You may want to plan to do one or the other but not both for credit, since they will overlap in course credit some for high school. However, if she did end up doing both, one could be labeled physical science and the next one labeled Integrated Physics and Chemistry. One may end up in the elective category (due to overlap). :D

With all of this in mind, I see several possible options. One would be to do Rev2Rev with DITHR 7/8, Exciting World of Creative Writing, and Rod and Staff English (adding government to the program) and using the advanced science. Then, the following year she would move into MTMM and either beef up the chemistry in MTMM, or borrow the IPC science from the new World Geography guide, or borrow the Biology from the new World History guide (whichever suited her best). Then, her path would continue on with MTMM, World Geography, and World History. The only barrier to this plan would be that she would be outside the age range to use the 3R's and the science as written in the high school guides. You could still use the 3R's and science from HOD, but you would have to borrow them from the guides ahead each time. :wink:

Another possible option is to do MTMM with DITHR 7/8, Write with the Best II, and Rod and Staff English (and add Economics). If you did MTMM, I would probably be inclined to borrow the science from either Rev2Rev (doing the Advanced Version) or from World Geography doing IPC. If you did desire to beef up the science in MTMM, then here is a thread discussing that possibility:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12998

Then, her path would continue on with World Geography, World History, and the first half of American History/Government. This path would allow her to use the 3R's and the sciences more closely to the way that they are written (as she would be in the target age range of the guides to come). There would be less tweaking then at that point.

On thing that will affect some of this decision-making is what your daughter's potential future plans might be? Does she think she will go on to some further education beyond high school, and if so in what field? Also, it will matter what your state requires as far as sciences in high school go. If you get a chance to pop back and share a bit more about those two areas that will help too! :D

Blessings,
Carrie

deltagal
Posts: 930
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Location: Virginia

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by deltagal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:10 pm

Carrie wrote: With all of this in mind, I see several possible options. One would be to do Rev2Rev with DITHR 7/8, Exciting World of Creative Writing, and Rod and Staff English (adding government to the program) and using the advanced science. Then, the following year she would move into MTMM and either beef up the chemistry in MTMM, or borrow the IPC science from the new World Geography guide, or borrow the Biology from the new World History guide (whichever suited her best). Then, her path would continue on with MTMM, World Geography, and World History. The only barrier to this plan would be that she would be outside the age range to use the 3R's and the science as written in the high school guides. You could still use the 3R's and science from HOD, but you would have to borrow them from the guides ahead each time. :wink:

Another possible option is to do MTMM with DITHR 7/8, Write with the Best II, and Rod and Staff English (and add Economics). If you did MTMM, I would probably be inclined to borrow the science from either Rev2Rev (doing the Advanced Version) or from World Geography doing IPC. If you did desire to beef up the science in MTMM, then here is a thread discussing that possibility:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12998

Then, her path would continue on with World Geography, World History, and the first half of American History/Government. This path would allow her to use the 3R's and the sciences more closely to the way that they are written (as she would be in the target age range of the guides to come). There would be less tweaking then at that point.
I'm following this thread with great interest, since I have a 14 yo whose situation sounds almost identical to yours in ability and circumstance. Here's my question for Carrie. I'm looking at your comment regarding the 3R's and I certainly understand the need to pick a higher literature and a higher math, but wouldn't the writing programs in each of these guides be appropriate for a high-schooler? Or are you speaking more specifically to the Rod and Staff placement? Just clarifiying.

I think these are all great options, but as the original poster indicated the "beef-up" dilemna gets a bit challenging. We've made it work for my oldest and it has been excellent, but my next one needs a "purer" plan.

Carrie, I'm also wondering what you see as the possible missing element in a jump from CTC to the geography guide. It sounds like the child in question is a solid student. What do you think might be the stretch?

I'm looking forward to blessedmomof4's answer to Carrie's question! I hope you don't mind my intrusion.
With Joy!
Florence

My blog: http://florencebrooks.com/

Began HOD 1/2009
Currently using: Bigger, RTR, Rev to Rev and MTMM

Carrie
Site Admin
Posts: 8125
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by Carrie » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:45 pm

Florence,

I'll just pop-in to clarify that I meant the literature portion would be more able to be used as written in the World Geography guide if the child reached that guide while still in 9th or 10h grade. Using the BJU 9th grade Foundations in Literature scheduled in the World Geography with a student in 11th or 12th grade would be a pretty big stretch from my perspective. :D The grammar and writing are both more flexible as to the grades in which they will work. :D

Science also gets a bit trickier as to what works well for which grade with an eye toward earning needed credits in this area by graduation.. :D

The jump between CTC and the World Geography guide would be huge in that the child will have missed so many of the incremental stepping-stones in skills (and increased work time and work level) that we wish for him/her to have prior to hitting the high school guides. The level and amount of writing, reading, analyzing, interpreting, thinking critically, narrating, independence, and following written directions will be so much higher than what was required in CTC. Even the jump to Rev2Rev or MTMM will be very large. Language arts skills certainly play a role in placement, but so do so many other needed skills. So, we want to be sure to challenge a student without overwhelming him/her. :D

Blessings,
Carrie

deltagal
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:29 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by deltagal » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:20 pm

Carrie wrote:Florence,

I'll just pop-in to clarify that I meant the literature portion would be more able to be used as written in the World Geography guide if the child reached that guide while still in 9th or 10h grade. Using the BJU 9th grade Foundations in Literature scheduled in the World Geography with a student in 11th or 12th grade would be a pretty big stretch from my perspective. :D The grammar and writing are both more flexible as to the grades in which they will work. :D

Science also gets a bit trickier as to what works well for which grade with an eye toward earning needed credits in this area by graduation.. :D

The jump between CTC and the World Geography guide would be huge in that the child will have missed so many of the incremental stepping-stones in skills (and increased work time and work level) that we wish for him/her to have prior to hitting the high school guides. The level and amount of writing, reading, analyzing, interpreting, thinking critically, narrating, independence, and following written directions will be so much higher than what was required in CTC. Even the jump to Rev2Rev or MTMM will be very large. Language arts skills certainly play a role in placement, but so do so many other needed skills. So, we want to be sure to challenge a student without overwhelming him/her. :D

Blessings,
Carrie
Super! Thanks Carrie. I appreciate your time on this. Many, many great insights, as always. :D
With Joy!
Florence

My blog: http://florencebrooks.com/

Began HOD 1/2009
Currently using: Bigger, RTR, Rev to Rev and MTMM

blessedmomof4
Posts: 1138
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by blessedmomof4 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:43 pm

Thank you Carrie (and Florence, too :) ) In my state, a diploma requires: 4 units of English, 4 of math including algebra 2 and geometry, 3 of science one of which should be biology and two of which should be lab sciences, 1 world history or geography, 1 US history, 1 US government, 2 physical ed, 1/2 each health and use of computers, and 4 1/2 electives. No matter what, her diploma will be "unofficial" in this state because this state only recognizes accredited distance learning school diplomas, or public school diplomas which also require passing "proficiency exams" in reading, writing, math, and science. However homeschoolers are free to school independently but independent diplomas are not recognized. I did see a clause about receiving state credit for "equivalent course work", but I'm not sure that is necessary or desired in our case. Independent homeschoolers are not required to take the state proficiency exams, although I suppose they would have to if seeking credit for equivalent course work.
Having said this, my daughter has expressed an interest in drama as well as ministry :D Drama we can take care of with a local community theater that has a youth program where they teach all aspects of putting on a play. I'm confident Heart of Dakota helps with the Biblical foundation she would need if she wants to go to a Bible college. With that in mind, I hope we can narrow options :D Thank you so much for taking the time for this!
Lourdes
Wife to Danforth
2 grads 9/19/92,7/8/95
2 in charter school 1/31/98, 9/19/99
3 in Heaven 8/11/06, 8/18/10, 9/13/13
Future HODie is here! 9/14/12

Carrie
Site Admin
Posts: 8125
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by Carrie » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:32 pm

Lourdes,

In looking at your state requirements and in pondering what would be the best fit overall for your daughter, I am leaning toward thinking that Rev2Rev may be the best fit for her overall. :D This is because she could use the Advanced Physical Science in Rev2Rev for credit with lab as one of her sciences. Then, she could possibly borrow some of the Chemistry units of the IPC from the World Geography guide the following year to give her a credit in Chemistry along with MTMM for her next lab science (since it sounds like she isn't going into a science related field it doesn't sound like she is looking for extreme rigor in her chemistry, meaning that we could possibly work out a chemistry credit more easily then through adjusting MTMM a bit). :D After that when she enters the World Geography guide, she would borrow the Biology from the World History guide for science (or else she could just do a non-lab science that year and instead wait to do Biology as scheduled in the World History guide the following year).

In also considering that your state requires a full year of government, there will be much more government related topic coverage in Rev2Rev, so by adding coursework to the government already covered within Rev2Rev (signers of the Declaration of Independence, study of the formation of our nation's government, and the 50 state study) your daughter could count her full credit in U.S. government there (with the addition of more government with another course). I'd lean toward adding A Noble Experiment for the additional needed government coursework to get it to a full credit. :D By completing both Rev2Rev and MTMM, you can also award a full credit in U.S. history. Plus, the President study in MTMM would also have to do with U.S. government and help in awarding credit there.

I would look toward having her earn an elective credit in fine arts through her drama (and possibly through her composer study in Rev2Rev). I would also look toward beefing up the Bible in Rev2Rev's Who Am I? Biblical Worldview study to earn .5 elective credit in Bible. Or, you could instead just do the Bible study as is and enjoy the journey, knowing you'll be earning Bible elective credits in MTMM, World Geography, and World History later (as all will have credit worthy Bible courses). :D

I really feel in my heart that this will be a better fit overall for your daughter. I'm so glad that you shared your state requirements and thoughts of possible future plans, as that really made a huge difference in helping me see the forest from the trees for your daughter! :D

Blessings,
Carrie

blessedmomof4
Posts: 1138
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Another high school placement question

Post by blessedmomof4 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:34 pm

Carrie, again, thanks so much for helping to put things into perspective! Taking everything into consideration, Rev to Rev sounds good. I can't help feeling a little sad to miss RtR, but I have another shot with the baby one day :D
Lourdes
Wife to Danforth
2 grads 9/19/92,7/8/95
2 in charter school 1/31/98, 9/19/99
3 in Heaven 8/11/06, 8/18/10, 9/13/13
Future HODie is here! 9/14/12

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