Please help with placement

[momof3boys]

I hope I have put this in the right place. I didn’t know whether to start a new thread about placement or add to someone else’s. I have read a lot on the message board and you all seem so helpful. I also have been told by another member of our homeschool group that Carrie, you are very helpful, and it would seem so by reading this board. I had originally written this as a letter to Carrie, but then read we were to either call or post on the message board. I would rather have it all written out because I’m afraid in a phone call, I would not recall everything. Anyway… Here it is:
I am sorry this is so long, but thank you for your patience in reading it. This is a dilemma that has plagued me for 8 months now and just about stalled me in educating my children.

Let me start by telling you I have 3 boys (which is another thing that makes HOD appeal to me). J is 7, A will be 6 in May (they are 17 months apart), and the baby will be 3 in May. We started “official” school for J in the fall of 2011 with MFW-K. It went really well, we enjoyed it, and had so much fun with it. It was very light and a very comfortable fit for us as an introduction to school. It was what I feel that K should be – fun, a very gentle approach. A would participate in most of the activities and enjoyed them also. Probably half way through K and without giving much effort on my part at all, J learned to read, not just read, but read well. I do not know how to test him, but I will say that he can read the KJV of the Bible fluently and comprehend it. I had already determined I was not going to ever push our children to read, especially being boys, ascribing to the theory of Raymond and Dorothy Moore that children will learn much easier when they are ready. (Of course, I think that’s true of pretty much any learning we do). Anyway, I was very pleased that this came so effortlessly, but with it comes lots of questions for me. Last winter (2012) I went ahead and bought the MFW 1st grade because at that time we were so pleased with our success with MFW-K. However, over the summer, I got to looking at 1st and was less and less pleased with many things about it. I am not here to bad-mouth MFW. I think it is still a good program and I wouldn’t say I would never use it again. Just, at this time, I don’t think it’s for us. I became very frustrated with it for several reasons. Needless to say, I just felt like by then it was below J’s level last fall. So the “greener grass syndrome” kicked in and about that time I discovered HOD. I decided to order some of LHFHG and combine it with some of MFW-1st so I wouldn’t waste that money. Big mistake! I have been miserable all year trying to do that and feeling like it was such a waste.

Now, I am at a crossroads. I would basically like to scrap this year so far and start fresh and am really leaning towards Beyond, actually about 95%, but not sure we are totally ready for it and would like your input. I have studied the Scope and Sequence chart thoroughly. I do like how HOD does not cover so many ages and doesn’t believe that works very well. I agree. I cannot imagine ever teaching my oldest and youngest the same thing and not either leaving one behind one way or another. However, I would like to do history and science with my 2 in school together as they are only 17 months apart and basically my second hits the same mark a year to a year and a half after his older brother. They also like doing the same things together. Here’s where we are at:
J: age 7, 3 months, technically in 1st grade
Reading/Phonics: Can read very well, as I mentioned he can read just about anything you throw at him, but he can read the KJV Bible very well. I have not completed phonics with him because I have not been sure how necessary that is for him. It just feels so silly when I do it with him…What little I have checked him on, he seems to spell very well also. He doesn’t necessarily sit down and read a lot unless I tell him, but he does read well. Should I complete some type of phonics program with him or is that necessary? I realize there are varied opinions about this. As far as the reading is concerned, I have been doing the emergent readers with him and was thinking of starting DIHOR 2/3?
Handwriting: Is okay and improving. I expect him to do his best, but don’t push or it will result in many tears. I just think both of my boys will be doing handwriting practice for quite some time. I like the A Reason For Handwriting, but have toyed with the thought of trying Handwriting Without Tears? Would appreciate thoughts on that. We have not really done any copywork. The most writing he has done is with his handwriting.
Math: I’m pretty sure he would need to start in Singapore 1A. He is very good at math, but MFW doesn’t emphasize it a whole lot the first 2 years, more of a hands on type math.

A: age 5, 10 months, in Kindergarten
Reading/Phonics: Is about 1/3 through with MFW-K and is on the edge of learning to read, IMO. I am thinking I would probably start him on “The Reading Lesson” and let him move on at a fast pace if he is ready for that? Then move onto the emerging readers as he is ready?
Handwriting: He is really just learning to make his letters, very crudely. I don’t know if it’s just my boys or if I have not pushed them, but I just think handwriting is an area we will lag a little behind on (and that’s okay with me). Maybe the motor skills or hand strength needed just isn’t there yet. I definitely think he will need some type of handwriting practice also.
Math: Has had very little “formal math.” What would you recommend for him? I know the one book is now out of print?

I would very much appreciate any and all recommendations you could make for both of them.

I guess in a nutshell, do you think it would be a mistake to move onto “Beyond?” Do you think we could make a good “fit” with it? Do you think it would be a mistake to combine them? I have read some of the posts (I think particularly one by Julie) that makes sense for splitting them up. I do not want A to always be left out, but at the same time if they want to do things together I don’t want to split them up. They are very close.

I am sorry this is so long, but I really appreciate any and all advice as I am anxious to end 8 months of anxiety and indecision in this and move forward with a plan. Carrie, if it would be best for me to call you, please let me know a convenient time to call and I will be happy to. Thanks again so much!

[blessedmomof4]

Based on what you shared I think Little Hearts could work well for both if you didn't get far with it. You can get the Beyond guide for the hands-on math lessons for Singapore 1A/1B (omitting the textbooks and only use the workbooks), and for the Emerging reader schedule-you mentioned you were using the emerging readers with the older child, but the schedule includes having the child read aloud to you as well as questions for discussion. Little Hearts makes a great K and 1st grade. Choose either the K or 1 science text. Beyond could be too far of a leap for your younger child because he may not be ready for spelling instruction and also would not be ready for copywork. if you split the children up, it seems like they would be in back-to back guides, Little Hearts and Beyond. Since you say they like to work together, I really think Little Hearts would work better for combining-HOD believes it is better to beef up for an older child rather than pull a younger child along. As the guides progress in skills the youngest child would always be lagging and would not reap the full benefits of the guides through the years.

[bethelmommy]

I agree with the pp that LHFHG sounds like the best fit for your two kiddos. If they like being together, they will be happiest and most successful in that guide. You can easily beef up for the oldest by doing first grade handwriting and thinking skills and adding spelling and math from Beyond. Once he finishes the ER series, you can start DITHR. This is what I have done for my oldest who is combined with his sister (18 months apart) and it has been great. If you just focus on the guide, without trying to add in all the MFW extras, I think you will be much happier. Your kids will really benefit from all the fine motor skills activities, not just through the workbooks, but through the rotating box activities as well. If you feel your kids are beginning to age out of the guides, you can always pick up the pace a bit to get to Beyond a little sooner, but you really don't want to jump there until their writing skills have more time to develop. If your oldest continues to excel at reading, you can always add extensions once you get to Bigger. HTH.

[Carrie]

momof3boys,

You did such a great job of describing your kiddos. That really helps so much, as we ponder the best fit for them! Since your kiddos are so close in age, and you desire to combine them for history and for science, I agree with the ladies' wise advice to place both kiddos in Little Hearts (and add the right side of each day's plans of Beyond for your older son).

This would mean that you would teach the left side of LHFHG plans each day to both kiddos and would also read the Storytime from LHFHG to both kiddos. Then, your 5 year old would do the right side of LHFHG for the 3 R's and your 7 year old would instead do the right side of Beyond for his 3 R's. For your 5 year old's math, we now recommend the Essentials Math A and B for kindergarten at a pacing of 2 pages per day for the year. This replaces the out of print Earlybird K Math. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/singapore.php

For your older son, I would do the rest of the Emerging Reader's Set, and once you complete that I would head into DITHR Level 2/3. I would have your son do the writing within DITHR to build his writing skills. You would also have him doing the spelling lists from Beyond each day (choosing list 1 if he is new to spelling and list 2 if he has already had a year of spelling). He will also be doing the gentle grammar lessons from Beyond each fifth day of plans. He would follow the math plans in Beyond along with 1A/1B. He could also do the Storytime, if desired, from Beyond too. Otherwise, he could wait one year on Beyond's storytime, and just do the LHFHG Storytime instead. If you did do Beyond's Storytime with him this coming year, then the following year, when he is joined in Beyond by little brother, you would just choose a different Storytime Set to read aloud and go through the plans again with both kiddos for Storytime.

While we could place your kiddos separately, with the older child doing all of Beyond and the younger doing all of LHFHG, the plan I've outlined above allows them to stay together for some subjects. This should work for your kiddos, since your older child hasn't had much yet in the way of formal history or science. I would just start back at the beginning of LHFHG, as if you are new to the program. I wouldn't add anything or try to combine it with another curriculum. I think you may be surprised as to how well it works when used on its own.

Since you already own parts of LHFHG, I would buy the rest of what is needed to complete the curriculum for your 5 turning 6 year old. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/little-hearts-packages.php

I would also order just the pieces needed for your older child to begin the right side of Beyond. This would include just the Beyond guide and the Singapore math workbooks only for 1A/1B. Link: http://www.heartofdakota.com/byd-little ... ckages.php

You already have the Emerging Reader's Set, or if you don't have all of it, be sure to get the remaining needed books to finish the set completely. Make sure to follow the plans in the Beyond Appendix along with the Emerging Reader's Set as there is a daily reading schedule to follow with guided questions and narration practices. These are needed prior to beginning DITHR. Spelling and grammar are both included in the Beyond guide. You could wait to order DITHR until your son completes the Emerging Reader's Set. Last, if you desire to do the Storytime from Beyond with your older son, choose one of the Storytime Sets at the link above. This will leave two other Storytime Sets you could still use the following year with Beyond when both boys are in that guide.

With what you've shared, and the frustration I sense in your post, I would begin the plan I've laid out above immediately. This will help you feel like you have gotten a jump start on next school year and will get you going in a steadily progressing direction with both kiddos now. It also should not be very expensive, since you already own parts of what will be needed. It's also good to know that if you purchase the Beyond guide now, without the other package parts of Beyond, you can receive credit the following year to allow you to still receive the Economy Package discount when you order the rest of Beyond as you get there with both kiddos.

Blessings,
Carrie

[momof3boys]

Thank you ALL so much for taking time out of your busy lives to help me! This is just what I needed! I wish I had listened to another friend last fall and just called or posted here asking for advice then.
Just a couple of more questions for clarification:
So do you think it is okay to "skip" phonics for my oldest and move on since he is doing so well with his reading?
What would you suggest for handwriting for my oldest?
Also, I like the posts where it details reasons for the choices for math, English... Is there one on handwriting I've missed? I like A Reason for Handwriting, but... I guess I always wonder if there is something else? Those posts help me a lot. I actually can't find the one at all right now. Could someone post the link for me, please?

Thanks again everyone! I am just about ready to place my order and hopefully get started the first of April!

[Carrie]

momof3boys,

I'm so glad that it is helping to talk through a plan. As far as phonics for your older child goes, it is good to "complete" basic phonics instruction just to fill in any gaps or holes. However, some kiddos do fine without going all the way through a program. I like to cover all my bases though, so when you purchase a phonics program for your 5 year old (like Reading Made Easy or The Reading Lesson), I would be sure to go over the last chunk of sounds with your oldest to be sure he has those down. Then, I'd just keep on going with the Emerging Reader's Set.

As far as handwriting goes, we do like A Reason for Writing or Italic (both of which we carry as options). Then, once kiddos have their letter formation down, we move to strictly copywork to practice the writing skills in a meaningful connected way. So with your 7 year old, I would be inclined to do A Reason for Handwriting A. If your child has already finished that then he is ready for copywork. He will be doing copywork in spelling/grammar daily with the Beyond plans. Once he gets into DITHR, be sure to write his answers on a markerboard, so he can copy from your writing onto his DITHR pages. This will provide another copywork experience. He will also be doing some copywork in LHFHG weekly with sentences. Instead of just having him fill-in-the-blanks with his LHFHG sentences, he should write the whole sentence. You may also wish to have him copy the Bible verse he is memorizing for LHFHG each week too (to provide him with another copywork experience each week).

Since you mentioned Handwriting Without Tears, I will share that I used it for years with my own oldest son (who is now a junior in high school). I was so excited about it at first, but as the years passed I noticed my oldest son's handwriting was not really improving. The Handwriting Without Tears program lines do not have a stopping point for tall letters, and also use special paper for writing, making the transition to regular notebook paper very difficult. The letters are also quite large, taking a long time for students to be able to downsize enough to write well on regular paper. We used the cursive from Handwriting Without Tears too, and found similar problems. The writing was not pretty or flowing and did not transfer well to copywork, even after multiple years of workbook practice. So, while there were not tears while doing the workbooks, there certainly were tears in the transition to writing on paper. With our next kiddos in line, we've had much better luck with the programs we carry and schedule in our guides.

Blessings,
Carrie

[bethelmommy]

For reading, TRL has a key words page at the end of each lesson that kids should have mastered. You can have your oldest read you each of those pages until he starts having difficulty and that's where you can back up and start. If he breezes through all 20 key words pages, then you can just have him read you the last few stories at the end of lesson 20 and move on to ER's.

For handwriting, we have had great success with the italic. I chose it because it has less repetition per day than ARFH. My ds struggles with handwriting as well and his OT recommended shorter practice sessions until his hand strength improves. Having said that, I love the look of ARFH as well as the scripture verses used in the 1st grade book. It just wasn't likely to be the best fit for us.

I'm glad you are excited to get restarted. I hope you have a refreshing finish to your school year.