Need help with older kids

[faiths13]

I have been looking into HOD for my two youngest ds's for this fall (they will be 4&6). My two oldest are going to be 12&14 and are currently in an independent study program. I am thinking of possibly bringing them back to hs in the fall also, and am considering HOD for them as well. I have no idea where t o start though. Im not sure if I could consider combining them, or not since my oldest will be in 9th.

Also in the past 3 years we have been hs'ing we have already rotated through ancients, middle ages and half a year of early modern. So with that being said Im not even sure where I would put them in history. They are probably at about the same reading level, or very close. Same with math. My oldest ds is behind in math and isnt as strong of a reader. Any input is appreciated. Thanks

[TrueGRIT]

Hi! Welcome to the board.

If you haven't already done so I would go to
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php
and look at where they best fit in regards to a) Reading b) Writing & c) Grammar
It is easier to 'beef up' and place other things such as math & science than it would be to struggle in the wrong guide with the reading/writing required.
They may be just fine in a higher level, or may need to back down one if they are not accustomed to a Charlotte Mason style of learning.
It certainly doesn't hurt if they are learning about a time period in history again. HOD covers in a way others doesn't cover.
HTH some! I know others can probably help more.

[LoriJo]

Here is a thread I recently started about my olders. Julie jumped in and posted some samples from some of the books which may help you as you are trying to figure out what to do with them. It is definitely a challenge to figure out where to start when they haven't done HOD all the way through, isn't it?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13306

[my3sons]

The ladies have had some great insight already! I too am wondering what you think about the placement chart with your dc in mind. I really think you'd enjoy homeschooling your 12 and 14 yo dc with HOD! I know I am personally depending on HOD as we navigate these teenage years, and homeschooling with HOD with my 13 yo this year has been incredibly rewarding. It has helped us stay close and enjoy our time together because it balances my teaching time with his independent time so well. This makes for a smooth-flowing day, as no one is confused about what they are to do. It also respects older dc's desire to be mature and somewhat in charge of their days, while still respecting mom's desire to be a guiding part of their days. We love it! From what you've shared, I'd guess your 12 and 14 yo could be combined. However, WHICH guide would be the best to combine them in is another story. Could you share what you find out about each of them from the placement chart? Then we'll chime in with more detailed advice.

In Christ,
Julie

[faiths13]

I am still looking at the placement charts, but neither of them is very good at diagramming. We haven't done much. Same with dictation.

[faiths13]

Also, the past few years we have worked on grammar at home it hasnt gone very well. they seem to have very little retention with it for some reason. We were doing CLE grammar this year and it was even worse. They couldnt remember half of the stuff from lesson to lesson.

[my3sons]

Good morning faiths13! For grammar, R & S English 5 is an integral year. I think you could work through that level with your dc, and it would help not only with grammar but also with writing skills. R & S English is advanced, with Levels 7 and 8 being high school credit worthy. As grammar is an easy thing to do just about one lesson a day, no matter what level you have, I'd factor that less into the placement. Math is the same way. However, the writing skills and the reading skills of each guide, along with the level of independence, and the ability to follow step-by-step directions is more of a factor in placement. Look at the history books and the science books, and see if dc can read those well on their own. Each HOD guide gets harder in this regard, so it is important to check this out. Likewise, the amount of writing and the depth of writing programs gets harder, so looking at those will help.

Another consideration is the exposure dc have had to Charlotte Mason skills, such as oral narrations, written narrations, and dictation. The amount of writing, physically, dc are used to is still another important consideration at this age for placement. I did want to mention that HOD suggests doing 2/3 of R & S English orally or on a markerboard, reserving just one section to be written. This has worked so well for us! It helps the lessons clip along, and it has not hampered retention. I think you would enjoy the change to R & S English, but I want to mention that retention will probably grow as they work through several years' of R & S English. There is a lot of great information there, and beginning with R & S English 5 will be challenging aplenty, so be sure to know going into it that more retention will occur in 6, 7, and 8 Levels, as they review beautifully and build upon each other.

Have you looked at the first week of plans of some of the guides you think may be in the range of your dc's placement? The "T" boxes are to be teacher-directed, the "S" semi-independent, and the "I" independent. That helps give a glimpse of the skills needed to do a guide. Likewise, the "Introduction" of each guide gives some great insight into skills covered in each guide. Keep asking questions - we'll get to the bottom of this and the end result will be a solid placement! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[faiths13]

Thank you Julie! Your answer was very helpful! I will look at the guide samples to get a better feel. My 12 yr old can read at a 9th grade level, but my 14 yr old cannot. They can read instructions and are used to writing "notes" on science and history. So that sounds like it will be helpful.

[faiths13]

OK, Im looking at the weekly samples and they look very interesting. Im still a little confused. Im wondering if I should go by history era? We have already done ancients, middle ages, and a half a year of early modern. So I was thinking maybe I should just go with Revivial to Revolution. We were doing SOTW 3 for history and I they didnt get that far into early modern history with it at all.

[blessedmomof4]

Hi, I would recommend you resist the urge to decide which program to use based on the time period. Even if you repeat an era, you and your children will not find it repetitive. HOD covers history like no other program I have ever tried in over 20 years. Print out two copies of the placement guide, and look at it for each child as an individual, focusing on the first page. Once you have found where each child falls in these critical skills, you can check out the rest for fine-tuning and to see if combining will work for your children. Sometimes using a separate levels works better, sometimes combining works better, each family is different. Welcome, and please come back and share your thoughts

[faiths13]

Ok so after reading through the placement guide, here is a summary of where my sons are at:

My 12 year old is a stronger reader than my 14 yr old. He loves to read and my
14 yr old hates it. They haven't done any literature study.

We have done some CM style learning in the past. We have worked on copywork, but
not long passages. We have done narration and written narration, but probably
only about one paragraph written. We haven't really done dictation at all.

They also have struggled with grammar in the past and have only done a small
amount of diagramming and outlining. Just enough to get a taste, not to
understand it really. I would say they know the basics of grammar. They do both
like creative writing though.

Math is their weakest subject, and is also mine. I would say they are close to
the same level of math, if not the same, because I have struggled to be able to
help them with it.

For history we have in the past year rotated through ancients, middle ages and
half a year of early modern (using SOTW which they didnt really get into any
American history).

We have also done some poetry study, composer study, and Latin and Shakespeare,
but not a lot.

[faiths13]

After a lot of thinking I have decided to not put my 14 yr old into HOD, but just my 12 yr old (as well as the two youngest). So maybe that will make figuring out what to choose easier. I am still looking for input. Thank you.

[blessedmomof4]

After re-reading your past posts, I would suggest Revival to Revolution after all for both older children if you were to combine. The target age for that guide is ages 11-13, with extensions for ages 14-15. Because your 14 year old is not a strong reader, you could omit the history extensions. To make the science high school credit worthy for your 14 year old, get science option 2, which includes more projects and lessons scheduled 5 days a week while the 12 year old can do just the lessons scheduled for days 1 through 3 in the plans each week. For grammar, I agree with Julie about using Rod and Staff 5 doing 1 lesson per school day-Rod and staff is advanced in the upper levels and level 5 is a good place to start for an older child who has not had much formal grammar instruction. You have until the end of high school to finish the rest of the Rod and Staff English books through level 8. For literature you could use Drawn into the Heart of Reading level 6/7/8, selecting literature books for your 14 and 12 year olds that are appropriate for their individual reading levels. Likewise, you can customize math at the level each child is at-you can find placement tests at the Singapore math website if you choose to use that, or you can substitute any math program you choose. So, you would purchase the Economy Package (the Signers study and State study are optional but I personally like them-you would need two state study books if you decide to use it) and an extra set of Student Notebook Pages and the Heroes of Faith book, Science Option 2, Basic Package (History Read-Alouds), Creative Writing (2 copies), Drawn into the Heart of Reading teacher manual and two student books level 6/7/8, corresponding book packs (or borrow books from the library for literature study in each of the genres), Rod and Staff English 5 teacher manual and student text, and your choice of math. Hope that helps

[my3sons]

I agree with Lourdes! She really gave solid advice here. I think that you could combine them in RevtoRev, omitting the extensions. I think you would love RevtoRev - it was a favorite year of ours. The living books are wonderful! I think even your child who doesn't love to read couldn't help but be pulled in by those awesome books! What do you think though?

In Christ,
Julie

[faiths13]

Okay, I was really set on RevtoRev, but then starting looking at My Fathers World Exploration to 1850 and Im confused all over again. They both look very similar! And the Apologia science looks great too. My ds hasnt done much for human body and the Apologia goes over it quite a bit. Has anyone who has used both MFW and HOD for those years compare?