written narrations in Preparing

[Gwenny]

I have a question about this. We are on unit 10 of Preparing and the written narrations are hard for my daughter. I'm not exactly sure how they should be either. We go over the questions Carrie has to make sure she has the story down. Then she goes to writing. She always just writes down answers to the questions. So, each time I try to help her "put it together" and take out some of the redundancy since she just answered questions. It says to write 3-5 sentences, so I try to narrow it down for her. I just saw a sample of Julie's son Riley's narration from Preparing and it was a whole page. I know I'm not helping or doing it the right way, but not sure what to do. Aren't the written narrations supposed to be just how they would tell you the narration, except it is written down? I'm assuming that I'm not supposed to have her narrate and me write it down for her.
Fyi, she is 16 and extremely learning challenged.

[julsoliveira]

I don't know if this will help, but here is ow we do the written narration:

I have him take a piece of scratch paper and we sit down and answer the questions. I have him write a complete sentence for each answer. At the end, I expect him to have 4 complete sentences (complete thoughts) i.e

* Benny lived in the desert
* the desert was hot and dry
* there was no fast food in the desert
* Benny moved to florida

Finally, in his notebook, he should help the sentences flow into a paragraph using the suggested starter provided in the narration ( In 1997 a boy ...)

So then his finished work might look like this:

In 1997, a boy named Benny lived in the desert. The desert was hot and dry, and did not have any fast food, so in the end, Benny decided to move to Florida.

I guess what I'm saying is, as long as he orally is able to tell me what is going on, and can form a sentence around that, I don't mind him using the sentence he writes down on the scratch paper to form his final draft.

[Mommamo]

Here is a post about how my daughter finally started writing her own. Her narration is midway down. Keep in mind that at looks much longer in her own writing, but yes, it is rather short as it is only 4 sentences. They have gotten a bit longer since then, but not much.

[MomtoJGJE]

I have Jayden answer the questions in the guide, then at the top of her paper I write the things that the guide tells to make sure are in the narration (who, where, when, etc). Well, I ask her those things and write it in one word, eg who- Constantine or whatever

[Mommamo]

Good grief, I'm forgetful this morning. Here is the link to that post I mentioned.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12818

[Gwenny]

Thanks so much!!

[my3sons]

My ds is doing CTC now, but when he was doing PHFHG and beginning written narrations, they were much shorter. It is amazing how much dc can grow within a year's time with guidance. I think by following PHFHG's lead, dc really do make great gains in written narrations over time. For anyone else reading this who may not be to PHFHG yet, or who may not have seen the notes in the box in PHFHG... The PHFHG plans intend for dc to first hear you read the entire reading for the day, then for the student to reread on his/her own just the noted portion to be narrated upon, then they are to orally answer the questions provided in the guide. If they do not know the answers, you can help the child look up the answers in their history book. Last, the student is to write a narration that is 3-5 sentences long (or less if at the start of PHFHG). I think it is key to note that there are far more questions than 3-5 in the guide, so it is not intended for dc to answer every one of the questions within their narration. Often a starter is given, and that is very helpful to show students how to begin. Likewise, words are sometimes given that can be written on a markerboard to help. This is helpful to do too. The guide also has students read their narrations aloud when they are done, and this is to help them to catch anything they want to change. I have found this key to do, as many times, it is how dc learn to self edit some of their mistakes before giving it to me. Finally, the Written Narration Skills section in the appendix is super helpful. Keep in mind they are to work on 1 skill at a time, not moving on until the first is mastered. This is very doable then. Written narrations are not the same thing as summaries, which is why every student's should look different.

Charlotte Mason said it is important to accept dc's attempts at written narrations and give just one thing to work upon each time. Easier said than done, I know, but it is important not to turn this into something it was not meant to be. I would accept any 3 sentences that fit with the section to be narrated upon, and choose just one thing to work on for the next time. I'd caution against having dc write answers to the questions, and then from that write their narrations, as this = double the writing and results in more of a summary than a written narration. By rereading (I reread the Appendix's suggestions for oral and written narrations at the start of EVERY year because I need reminding as I have a tendency to be too hard on my dc) and doing my best to stick to the guidelines laid out in PHFHG, we have really seen amazing progress in each of our dc through the years. I hope this helps, but from what you've shared, it sounds like dd is doing just what she should be doing, and probably needs help working on just one thing - perhaps redundant words if that is the case. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[Gwenny]

I need to go read those instructions again also. I think I should take away the book from her also so she can't answer the questions. After we go over the questions and I give her the intro sentence starter, I need to remove it from her.

This shows I'm not doing my job, but I checked her independent science the other day (after weeks). She is supposed to do copy work from Draw and Write Through History, and they usually say "copy paragraph 1 from pg. such and such". She has been doing it, but only SENTENCE 1 from either paragraph 1 or 2. Oops! She's probably bummed that I found that, 1 sentence is sure not much copy work!

Nancy

[laurapella]

I'd like to tag onto this question if you don't mind...

Julie, you said

Written narrations are not the same thing as summaries, which is why every student's should look different.

This is our first year doing narration, and I still do not quite understand the difference between a narration and a summary. I think I have read dozens of explanations on these boards, but my brain still does not compute it. I think that my ds in Preparing probably does more of a summary than narration, but I am not quite clear. If he is, how do I correct that? He always wants his written narrations (again...summaries?) to be longer than the "allowed" number of sentences. When I point this out, I usually wind up with many run-on sentences to include the information he wants to. When I read them, it seems to me that he has not included any "unimportant" information, so I am not sure how to help. Can someone please try once more to help me understand?? Thank you!!!

[Gwenny]

I am the same way, I am trying to get away from thinking about summaries. I think I try to get my younger daughter to do summaries as well, I listen and TRY to keep my mouth shut at the end, but I usually end up trying to get more info out of her if she only told part of the reading.

[Gwenny]

She did the written narration for unit 10 today. It went SO much better! She did great. We read the whole passage, she read the portion the guide tells her to read, and then we answered all of the questions orally. I sent her with the 1st sentence opener and didn't let her have the guide to look at the questions. It was exactly what it should be. I had to correct some spellings and one little portion that wasn't accurate from the text, but overall it was a huge improvement.
Thanks for your help!

[Carrie]

Gwenny,

You've already gotten so many excellent responses that are very helpful, so I'll just pop-in to link another thread where I talked about a similar topic. I just posted my response on the bottom of the thread this evening. I think it may be of help to you too! Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13075

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

...This shows I'm not doing my job, but I checked her independent science the other day (after weeks). She is supposed to do copy work from Draw and Write Through History, and they usually say "copy paragraph 1 from pg. such and such". She has been doing it, but only SENTENCE 1 from either paragraph 1 or 2. Oops! She's probably bummed that I found that, 1 sentence is sure not much copy work...

Oh no! Don't be so hard on yourself! So sorry if my post came off that way. A homeschool mama's job is so much more than getting narrations just right and checking everything just so! A big part is just choosing to homeschool dc in the first place, as every day is a blessing and a sacrifice all in one. I can always tell you are reflecting on how things are going and careful to make sure it goes well, willing to make changes if needed. I think your dd is super blessed to have such a loving, dedicated mama!

In Christ,
Julie

[my3sons]

I'd like to tag onto this question if you don't mind...

Julie, you said

Written narrations are not the same thing as summaries, which is why every student's should look different.

This is our first year doing narration, and I still do not quite understand the difference between a narration and a summary. I think I have read dozens of explanations on these boards, but my brain still does not compute it. I think that my ds in Preparing probably does more of a summary than narration, but I am not quite clear. If he is, how do I correct that? He always wants his written narrations (again...summaries?) to be longer than the "allowed" number of sentences. When I point this out, I usually wind up with many run-on sentences to include the information he wants to. When I read them, it seems to me that he has not included any "unimportant" information, so I am not sure how to help. Can someone please try once more to help me understand?? Thank you!!!

Good morning, laurapella! My oldest ds, Wyatt, actually gave summary narrations for years, probably up until the end of CTC for sure, and maybe even during RTR. If dc are writing summary narrations on their own, this is actually probably more their 'style', at least at the start of learning to narrate, and is fine. Wyatt has been naturally encouraged to add some flair and personality to his narrations as he has read the styles of different excellent authors of living books. Just reading HOD's excellent reading materials has had a huge influence on his own narrating! The writing programs HOD has chosen through the years have also helped add variety and personality to his narrations. I have tried to encourage him by asking him to start his narration with something clever, like a question, an interesting fact, etc. It helps that these types of helps in writing are taught through the years in HOD's creative writing programs. I have borrowed ideas from what their current writing program is teaching to offer help in this way. However, if a student's preferred style of narrating is more a summary-style, this may be just the way they enjoy narrating, and as such, there is probably nothing wrong with it.

The reason I wanted to mention that the goal is not for students to produce a summary narration (unless it is noted in the plans, as it is in some later years on specific days), is that as a parent, I used to check his written narration with guide in hand, making 100% sure he 'answered' every question in the guide in his written narration. After learning more about narrating, I realized this was not my role, and after speaking to Carrie, I realized that this was not her intention in writing the questions. Live and learn, right? I always say my last ds is going to get the very best of my wisdom and abilities as a teacher because at that point, I'll have it all figured out! The parent's expectation of the narration, in this regard, results in a summary narration every time, as it is more of a question/answer narration. So, based on my past experience, I wanted to share this!

For all of PHFHG and much of CTC, I honestly think it is key to just be extremely encouraging as our dc attempt to narrate, and to accept what they do quite easily, with many compliments and 1 thing to improve upon for next time. I have found, however, it is key to consistently help them make editing corrections - punctuation, capitalization, spelling, proper grammar. Working carefully together on this has been important. Once dc can move past the concrete part of writing, they can have more fun with the 'personality' of it. If I get time, I will try to post some narrations to show the gradual change in them over time. Hope something here helps though! Narrating truly is a journey, for the teacher as much as the student. At least I have sure felt that way.

In Christ,
Julie

[my3sons]

She did the written narration for unit 10 today. It went SO much better! She did great. We read the whole passage, she read the portion the guide tells her to read, and then we answered all of the questions orally. I sent her with the 1st sentence opener and didn't let her have the guide to look at the questions. It was exactly what it should be. I had to correct some spellings and one little portion that wasn't accurate from the text, but overall it was a huge improvement.
Thanks for your help!

CELEBRATE! CELEBRATE! Way to go dd, way to go mom!!! I am so happy to hear this! Thank you for sharing and for your wonderful questions on this thread, as they are questions many others have too. Have a great weekend, Gwenny!

In Christ,
Julie