As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

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ncmomof5
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by ncmomof5 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:25 pm

I asked my daughter (who is currently a 9th grader not using HOD, but hoping to return to it next year) what she would prefer-- daily plans or weekly grid (we've used both), and she said daily plans. So, Carrie can chalk up another vote for DAILY PLANS. :D

I would like to add, that I get why Carrie is hesitant about moving away from the Daily Plans. It really does force the parent and the student to be accountable for what the student needs to do today. When I used HOD in the past, I felt restricted, and decided to move on to a curriculum with a weekly grid format in order to give myself more flexibility, but I am back to HOD (with my younger students). There was too much flexibility in the weekly grid, and I felt much freer about skipping things, pushing things together, etc. With the daily plans I see how beneficial it is to force myself and my student to follow the plan instead of trying to rush through 2 days to keep on track so that I start my new weekly grid on Monday. :roll:
So, although I am way past the high school age, I find the Daily Plans help ME to stay on track, not try to cram too much into a day, and give my students a good balance of all the skills and areas of study they need to be working on every day. It reminds me of the Scripture that says, "Give us THIS day our daily bread", and that is exactly what HOD does for our school day. It gives us our daily dose of school without overwhelming, underfeeding or leaving anything important off.

Thanks so much for asking, Carrie, and I look forward to the upcoming geography guide.

In His love,
RuthAnn
2013 - 2014
15 yo dd -- MTMM
13 yo ds -- MTMM
12 yo ds -- finish PHFHG/CTC
9 yo ds -- finish BLHFHG/BHFHG
5.5 yo dd -- LHFHG

"Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."
Matthew 6:32

blessedmama
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by blessedmama » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:54 pm

I would have to vote for the daily plans. I think that the weekly grids would be too much extra work on my part. I would love to give more input but I am typing with one hand and a finger because of carpal tunnel surgery.

Carrie, I will pray that God will give you direction and peace during this process. :D
Saved by Grace,
Sara D.

Wife of DH for 13 years! Mother to my four wonderful blessings from the Lord (DD 11; DS 10; DS 9; DD 7)

John'smom
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by John'smom » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:29 pm

Even though it seems we are far away from high school (currently in Preparing) after reading what everyone wrote, I'd vote for the Daily Plans and I love the Key Ideas as well. Love the graciousness on the board too.
Edwena
*Married to my best friend for 16 yrs
*Mom to ds (15), dd (13), dd #2(3)
*Combining my dc in WG (2017-2018)
*Completed and absolutely loved BLHFHG through MTMM

Heather4Him
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by Heather4Him » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:56 pm

8arrows wrote:I would definately like everything to be planned out per day. 2 of my students have made the transition to college without any difficulty in this area. I understand the thought process (and see the merit), I just think the guides already teach this in their unique presentation. I think I lean toward continuing with the boxes, but perhaps with more of a bullet point presentation.
..Best Book Ever 105-107
..written narration
..concentrate on character today
The how-tos for the written narration could still be available in the appendix for those who had not grown up on HOD, or you could still do more detailed instructions the first 3-5 weeks and then cut down to the bullet points.
Definitely! I was thinking this, too, because both our dd and I have missed things in the current paragraph format, and I often have to go through really carefully to make sure we both covered everything we needed to cover. (I know that is a good skill in itself, but being a visual learner, a bulleted format is easier to work with.) :)
Love in Christ,
Heather (WI)
~~~~~
16yog girl
DITHOR/CTC/RTR/Rev2Rev/MTMM

holdinon
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:37 pm

Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by holdinon » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:53 am

Just now seeing this thread, and have really enjoyed "hearing" everyone's thoughts.

We LOVE the daily plans, so my vote is definitely to keep that format. When I first thought about prep for college, I wondered if perhaps the guides did need to move into a different format. But after pondering more, I think that through the actual "doing" of the daily plans, that is teaching the planning out. You see this more so in some boxes, but really within all of them. The kids (presumably) see all or most of the books they will be doing over the course of the year. It is overwhelming sometimes to look at the stack of books, but then they also get to see it broken down into the bite sized pieces. I believe that just seeing this will be great training for actually the doing of it later. Also, in the use of Dithor, they get some of this training in the book projects. So, I have resolved the college-planning-prep concern in my mind, and am "all in" for the daily plans.

As for the key ideas, I like these also. If nothing else, I like being able to read those out loud within our meeting time to sort of close-out each box for the day.

On multiple guides---I believe I would slack off in staying up to speed if I had to go to a different source for information. DD is so independent now that I have to keep myself disciplined not to just "let her go". This would be even more of an issue if it was complicated with additional materials (I realize this is a personal discipline thing, but its where I am :oops: ).

All that rambling to say: My vote is to keep the guides just as they are :D
Angie
2013-2014 year:
Geography, CtC, Preparing, Bigger, Beyond, and Little Hearts (and surviving!)

(Completed LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG, Preparing, CtC, RtR, and RevtRev)

8arrows
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by 8arrows » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:10 pm

Carrie, you commented on the long English box. Would it be possible to have separate boxes, perhaps connected with a dotted line for English? I am sometimes a little overwhelmed by all the different aspects of the English box, even though they are necessary. For example, could we have a grammar and dictation box, a writing box, and a literature box--one on top of the other and yet connected with a dotted line? We have different boxes for the history. Before this discussion is over, you will know all of our individual "issues" and limitations!

As I read over the previous thoughts, I have one more comment. I really want all the subjects scheduled out. Quite frankly, that is what I buy the guide for. Again, I understand the thought process of wanting the child to schedule it out, but (I feel bad saying this), with many children, this is one more thing for me to check up on. Having transitioned two of mine to college-level work, I did not find this to be a problem. My plea has been made. Please read it with the humor and truth with which it was written. I am really looking forward to the high school guides. However you choose to format them, I know they will be a blessing to my family. Thank for listening to us. Of course we can ask for the moon, since we are not the ones writing the guides!
Melissa, wife to Jim for 28 years
3 graduated, 2 using US 2, 8th grade dd using Missions to Marvels
Isaiah 40:11 ...He gently leads those that have young.

Carrie
Site Admin
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by Carrie » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:56 pm

Ladies,

I am really pleased with the thinking process that this thread is taking all of us through and am enjoying the dialogue with so many interesting and very wise mommas! :D

There are many good point to ponder and much to consider, isn't there! :D I have to admit that I have been thinking for months about so many of these things that you are bringing out in this thread too. I'll address a few here that have been brought up in the recent part of this thread. :D

I agree that a bulleted or numbered list of tasks is easier to follow than directions in paragraph form. But in the past, we've had to utilize the paragraph form of directions mainly for two reasons. The first is that it is a way to be able to fit much more information in a small space (box). This is because lists leave much white space at the end of lines and take up many more lines, which frankly I've just not had the space for in the boxes. The second (and less important) reason is that quite often in school type tasks, the directions do not come in list form. If you look at most teacher assignments as kiddos mature, you'll find the directions often given in multiple sentence or paragraph form. :D

If we did decide to go with much more abbreviated directions, then we could definitely consider a list form of directions instead. I'm just trying to weigh how clear abbreviated directions would be. I can really see in some cases that the directions in high school can be shorter and more concise. I can also see that we can do away with repetitive directions at this level. :D For the boxes with questions to discuss or ponder though, there would be no way to get them all to fit when listing instead of in paragraph form. So, it may be possible to do it some of the time but not all of the time? At that point I'm not sure whether it would feel strange to slip in and out of two different forms in the boxes (some with bulleted brief directions and others more narrative)?

Another thing I am weighing is whether it is wise to keep any graphics for the boxes in the high school editions (like the corner graphics on the boxes, the stars by the resources used, the coding for Independent, Semi-Independent, and Teacher Directed). :D This is another topic on which I'd love to hear your thoughts.

As far as scheduling a project to carry over onto subsequent days, I definitely think that is a viable option (as we have done it in our guides previously). However, I can see that the student possibly could take over some scheduling of that type of thing once the guide has given the assignment and number of days to work on the task with just a daily reminder in the box to work on the project. I'm not sure about beginning the first year of high school with that but I can see moving toward it as the years pass. I like this idea very much in theory, but I want to make sure that the student is accountable in practice. I think the initial adjustment to high school will be pretty big on its own without a ton of changes at once. :D

When thinking of dividing up the language arts box, I have definitely been giving that much thought as well. I was thinking that literature could be its own box possibly, with writing, grammar, and dictation in another box? We'll have to see, but I do think a division of tasks there would help, even though it will all fall under one category for credit. :D

This brings me to something else I've been going back and forth about as to how to schedule in the guide. In planning to offer several science options within our guide for each year of plans, this brings up a scheduling question along with it. For example, in the geography guide our current plan is to offer a choice of an integrated chemistry and physics course, a biology course, or the Exploration Education physical science advanced version (for those who may not have used it in Rev2Rev). In offering these three options, we can either schedule all 3 in the science box each day, or schedule all 3 in the Appendix of the guide, or sell each schedule separately along with the purchase of the corresponding science. Each option has its merits and all affect the design of the daily plan (especially as to whether there is room to divide up the language arts). So, I'd be interested in your thoughts on these options too. :D

Blessings,
Carrie

Homeschooling6
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by Homeschooling6 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:33 pm

I haven't read all responses yet. Only have gotten to page two with Carrie's reply.

I absolutely love the daily format. Weekly grids overwhelm me and there's too many flipping pages. This is one reason why I think other companies haven't worked for us.

I know my dd loves the boxes, they are tidy and neat. She can put a huge check mark through it when she's done :D . It just works for me as well.

There is also enough room for me to write my child a note if needed.
Linda
ds16~WG and now WH
dd.15~RtR, MTMM, and now WG
ds.14~ PH, CTC, and now MtMM
ds.13~ PH, CTC, and now Rev2Rev
ds.11 ~Bigger, and now CtC
ds.10 ~ Preparing



http://www.homeschooling6.com

John'smom
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by John'smom » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:49 pm

To your new post Carrie, I have some responses. I would put the science plans in the appendix if you are wanting to save room on the daily plan pages. We have taken HOD with us other places and done our work. If it was separate, it's just another thing I have to remember to grab whereas if it is in the manual it's just one thing to grab.

As far as the coding, you could always leave out the graphics to create more, but I do like to see the "I", "S", and "T" in the manual especially if it is applicable to the high school level.
Edwena
*Married to my best friend for 16 yrs
*Mom to ds (15), dd (13), dd #2(3)
*Combining my dc in WG (2017-2018)
*Completed and absolutely loved BLHFHG through MTMM

ncmomof5
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by ncmomof5 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:08 pm

To your new post Carrie, I have some responses. I would put the science plans in the appendix if you are wanting to save room on the daily plan pages. We have taken HOD with us other places and done our work. If it was separate, it's just another thing I have to remember to grab whereas if it is in the manual it's just one thing to grab.

As far as the coding, you could always leave out the graphics to create more, but I do like to see the "I", "S", and "T" in the manual especially if it is applicable to the high school level.
I agree with the above.

I also wanted to say that I think it would be fine to have some narrative boxes and have others in a list form. But if a bullet list doesn't convey or communicate exactly what you are trying to get across, don't force it. Communicating effectively to the student is more important than brevity. Does that make sense? :)

RuthAnn
2013 - 2014
15 yo dd -- MTMM
13 yo ds -- MTMM
12 yo ds -- finish PHFHG/CTC
9 yo ds -- finish BLHFHG/BHFHG
5.5 yo dd -- LHFHG

"Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."
Matthew 6:32

8arrows
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:49 pm

Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by 8arrows » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:10 pm

I agree with the previous posters. I would put the science plans in the appendix. Then, the science box could just say Day1, Day 2, etc. Would the different sciences each be their own section so that we could just ignore the 2 that did not apply to us? After beefing up REV2REV this year (which is going fine--just more work than when it is planned out for me), I am really looking forward to having everything in one guide!

I like the T, S, I tags, but I can do without the graphics. Part bullet points, part paragraphs wouldn't bother me or the kids at all.

I had another thought with the science. Since many will have already done the Education Exploration, perhaps the plans for that could be a separate purchase. That would only leave you with two science options in the book. I would have to give that some more thought, but that is what popped into my mind.
Last edited by 8arrows on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Melissa, wife to Jim for 28 years
3 graduated, 2 using US 2, 8th grade dd using Missions to Marvels
Isaiah 40:11 ...He gently leads those that have young.

bethelmommy
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Location: Alaska

Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by bethelmommy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:13 pm

I really like the graphics in the boxes, but if you need the space, that seems a reasonable thing to exclude. The TSI codes should probably stay. They serve as a good daily reminder for new and veteran HOD users alike.

For science, if there are three options, it seems reasonable to include them in the appendix. If you feel there is one that would be primarily chosen over the others, perhaps you could schedule the one science and include the others in the appendix.

If space allows, LA would probably be easier to read if divided into two boxes.

Regarding narrative vs. bullet points, while I do like the visual appeal of bullet points, I agree with your statement that kids need to learn to read and comprehend directions thoroughly in paragraph format. I also agree with the pp's point that clarity of directions for students is more important than a visually concise list.

Thank you so much for your thoroughness in thinking through the big picture as well as the minute details. I am incredibly awed by your willingness and faithfulness in completing these guides. God has gifted you with an amazing ability and we are so blessed to get to enjoy the fruit of your labor.
Grace and peace,
Alicia
DS 14 MTMM, DITHOR 6/7/8
DD 13 Rev2Rev, DITHOR 4/5
DS 10 Bigger, DITHOR 2/3
DD 8 Beyond, Level 2 Book Pack
(Previously completed LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, RTR, Rev2Rev, and DITHOR 2/3, 4/5)

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:28 pm

Daily format is my pick!

I don't mind at all if there are some boxes with bullet points and some with paragraphs. I think using what works best for each one is great. I like the clean space of bullet points or just less words in general, of course, only when it still allows for clear directions.

Science....if we have three plans in one guide....the guide will be huge! I vote for a small science box with a reminder, to allow more division with language arts (we often overlook at least one of the LA Assignments bc there are do many there!) , and separate science guides. I really don't want to have to lug around or pay for all those extra plans we won't even use. It would really cut down on print expense all around with everyone getting one set of science plans rather than three.

I'm also all for keeping the T S I

I'd love to see a small blank box to write in extras we choose or our state might require like foreign language, speech, band or sport practice, etc.

A template checklist, just four pages , that basically shows the pattern for each day but no info in the boxes, maybe even two days per page, to use as an accountability page for meeting times would be awesome. It would be just those two or four pages that we could copy each week or laminate and check off daily as we go, even writing time spent, grades, etc if we so chose. Would be fairly easy to do and honesrky, could even be the weekly grid but just not filled in with assignments. Does that make sense?
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

blessedmama
Posts: 148
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Location: MN

Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by blessedmama » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:44 pm

I really like having the T ,S, I codes. But if you need to save space, after the title of the box you could put an * or + or # sign to indicate independence, teacher led, or semi-ind.

Like this:
History *
You could indicate what each symbol means in the beginning of the teacher's guide.

Just a thought.
Saved by Grace,
Sara D.

Wife of DH for 13 years! Mother to my four wonderful blessings from the Lord (DD 11; DS 10; DS 9; DD 7)

daybreaking
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: As we move into high school, the design of the guides...

Post by daybreaking » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:36 am

I vote for the daily boxes. When I was in the choosing stage, MFW, Sonlight and HOD were some of the companies I researched. Although there are MANY reasons I prefer HOD over the others, the daily grid was definitely a selling point. MFW has great content, but every time I looked at their plans, I was overwhelmed. I like having everything right in front of me; I wouldn't like having to switch back and forth between the plans and notes. I also know my nature and when I'm pressed for time, I'm sure I would have the tendency to skip looking up the notes and just check off the boxes.

I also vote for having the plans written for me and not having the children (or me) pencil in the plans. Part of the beauty of HOD is that I don't have to take the time to plan, but rather everything is laid out for me. If we had to fill in our own plans or organize how much to do each day, I think I'd start to question if I shouldn't just do my own planning from scratch. Having once taught high school, I fully agree with Carrie's thoughts on the children having a full load already, without the extra burden of planning things out. Honestly, I think the best prep for college is solid work skills (and the character traits we're currently studying in BIgger :)). Students that have gone through HOD will be used to working hard, used to completing projects, used to higher level thinking skills and used to being organized. To me, those qualities will easily transfer to success in college.

Wife to one amazing husband and mother to two precious blessings from above:
ds21 & dd17

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