Questions about combining and choosing a program...

[lambsmama]

Our older two kids are almost 8 yrs old and 5.5. For this school year we've combined our phonics instruction, Bible, read-alouds, science and history. My 5.5 yr old is doing exceptionally well at phonics/reading and her math curriculum. The other stuff stuff seems to go over her head and she zones out. She was very quick to learn to read and write, though! My 7 yr old is pulling ahead in reading (he was a struggling reader that is why I re-taught him phonics this year) now, though. So ... I'm trying to figure out what to get for this coming year. I'm considering HOD and I was wondering if I should try to combine again or should they be in separate curriculum. It seems, based on this website, that my 5 yr old could either do LHFHG or Beyond ... it seems my almost 8 yr old could fit into Beyond or Bigger, though. Our year is drawing to a close as we do January to December schooling so we'll technically be starting 1st grade and 3rd grade in January. The other part of this is we have a few younger kids (toddler and baby) and I struggle between school time and carrying for my little ones who also need attention. I need to find a balance here!

[Kathleen]

Welcome!

There are so many things to consider as you decide what's best for your family! It really does take some time to think through the possible options and then pray about them..and talk to your husband about them...and think about them again. I have loved all the ideas here that the ladies are able to share that give insight into different situations though, and I think you'll love having this board as a resource as you think away! Have you read these posts by Carrie? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9344 They do a great job of laying out HOD's philosophy and how that can translate into different homes' situations. I'd start there.

Just so you know, it is very easy to customize the "basics" for your children and combine them for the rest of the guide if they're well-placed there. So, if you think that your youngest places solidly in Beyond and could do the work required in the different boxes, combining your 2 there could work well for you! If not, there are many moms here who run multiple guides and find that works well for their situations. We do that in our house. My days are FULL - but we LOVE it! I sure wouldn't mind having more free time...or even time to work on things in my house that really need doing...but for me, I realize that in this season of my life homeschooling is my full time job. And, I've got 5 precious little kiddos to take care of & teach & train & enjoy! And that isn't going to happen in just a couple hours every day...no matter what homeschool curriculum I use. I say that just because I want you to know that we're all in the same boat with you. It can be HARD to balance everything! (And it seems even harder as we're contemplating how God would have us use our time and what we should teach our kids! )

Our family loves HOD because it keeps Christ in the CENTER of our days. I'm able to spend time digging into the Word with my little 1st grader, learning scripture and talking about Godly character with my 3rd grader, and discussing worldview and what beliefs my 7th grader has and how that will affect his life's choices. These are the priceless moments for me as a mom! And, it's solid academically. I love that our days are balanced and that I really am able to cover everything needed in all subject areas for all the kids at their level over the units. They don't do everything everyday, but they're getting it in bite-sized manageable chunks.

One other thing I'd think about with your kids is how they work together. Do they enjoy learning together? Does the older feel like he's behind if he's working with the younger? Or vice-versa, does the older overshadow the younger? I think Carrie talks about that in those posts I linked above. But it's something to consider when placing them.

And...another thought...I have been able to enjoy how HOD teaches independence to the kids, while still keeping the parent involved for important discussions and follow-ups. So, I have time with Grant (about 1.5 hr every day), but he completes most things independently while I'm schooling others. This gives him the necessary responsibilty appropriate to his age, and it frees me up to teach little ones to read, change diapers, do a puzzle, etc. So, as you consider your mix of guides now and in the future, know that you will be training your kids to do more independently with HOD as you move along so that you'll continue to have time for the little guys. And if you decide to split your oldest 2 now, they can each have time to play with younger siblings during the day so that you can have some "uniterrupted" blocks of time with one or the other. (At least as "uniterrupted" as days at home with kids can be... ) We have that planned into our days and it works well. I'd share our schedule, but I'm not exactly sure how to get it on here...and I had a wrench thown into it a few weeks ago and I haven't exactly put what will work in writing yet. We have 48 baby calves on the dairy as of today that are less than 6 weeks old....so that means a lot of chores to do for us. And, we need the kids to get out and do them in the morning (which affects our start time). In years past the kids and I were only needed for the afternoon feedings, so we're still figuring out what will work long term as we have babies all winter and spring.

Praying for you right now as you think this through!
Kathleen

[lambsmama]

Thank you so much for your reply! We actually have 5 as well...our oldest is special needs and receives therapy (in-home) everyday...

One last question -- Would my daughter be too young for Beyond? What is the biggest difference between LHFHG and BLHFHG? She is almost done with her phonics curriculum ... she can read early reader books, she can write a few sentences at a time and we've started to do spelling drills with her this year. She loves writing, keeping a journal, filling in workbooks ... we've combined our kids for grammar and she doesn't quite grasp it like my son. After looking through the samples, I think they could both do Beyond ... some of it seems like it would be on the "easier" side for my son but not too much so. The difference between Bigger and Beyond -- looking at a globe vs. drawing the circle on the ground ... he understands about maps/globes ... we've done a lot of mapwork with him this year ... he also loves science - that is his favorite subject. My daughter doesn't have much (any?) experience with maps and globes, etc. I can see big differences there but I'm wondering if some would be review for my son whereas it would be new for my daughter ... maybe that would be good?

Also, he did Singapore Math 1A & 1B, for instance, in 1st grade and now he is at the end of 2nd ... so when we start this he will technically be in 3rd grade. His weaker areas are reading and writing but he is doing so much better than he was a year ago! What I'm asking is -- is the curriculum based upon maturity in general or is it based more on reading/writing ability level?

[8arrows]

As a mom of 8, I say combine them in Beyond. My daughter who will be 6 next month is enjoying Beyond with her sister who will be 8 in Jan. Uncombining at our house simply means school doesn't get done. Combining means it does. I know this is not the case with each family as uncombining has been a lifesaver for some; I am just sharing our experience. My girls did LHFHG together last year. To be frank, the younger did not always get everything, but, to be frank also, she was little. However, the school year went well and both girls enjoyed school. Fast forward to this year, the younger is understanding everything, they both still love school, and I will be able to combine them throughout their school experience. This has been my experience with my older children as well. (The girls referenced above are #6 and #7.)

[mom23]

Thank you so much for your reply! We actually have 5 as well...our oldest is special needs and receives therapy (in-home) everyday...

One last question -- Would my daughter be too young for Beyond? What is the biggest difference between LHFHG and BLHFHG? She is almost done with her phonics curriculum ... she can read early reader books, she can write a few sentences at a time and we've started to do spelling drills with her this year. She loves writing, keeping a journal, filling in workbooks ... we've combined our kids for grammar and she doesn't quite grasp it like my son. After looking through the samples, I think they could both do Beyond ... some of it seems like it would be on the "easier" side for my son but not too much so. The difference between Bigger and Beyond -- looking at a globe vs. drawing the circle on the ground ... he understands about maps/globes ... we've done a lot of mapwork with him this year ... he also loves science - that is his favorite subject. My daughter doesn't have much (any?) experience with maps and globes, etc. I can see big differences there but I'm wondering if some would be review for my son whereas it would be new for my daughter ... maybe that would be good?

Also, he did Singapore Math 1A & 1B, for instance, in 1st grade and now he is at the end of 2nd ... so when we start this he will technically be in 3rd grade. His weaker areas are reading and writing but he is doing so much better than he was a year ago! What I'm asking is -- is the curriculum based upon maturity in general or is it based more on reading/writing ability level?

Well, I think it's based on both ability level and maturity level. We tried combining my children in Beyond when they were 6 and 8, and it wasn't successful...that said, from your descriptions above I'd be inclined to recommend you give it a try. I think if my 6 yo had been a girl, rather than a boy it may have been different for us-he just wasn't able to sit that long and listen to the read alouds and get anything at all from them as a 1st grade boy! He also was no where near what you're describing as far and writing level, and reading. My reasons for separating my children at the time were more maturity-based, but looking at the way he's completing Beyond now as an early 3rd grader it's a great stretch for his abilities mixed with a perfect amt. of confidence-building review. He's just the type that needs plenty of things that feel easy or he gives up. So, all that to say I do think ability and maturity are both important.

I think the biggest difference for us between LHFHG and Beyond were the things I read aloud. LHFHG has much shorter, younger-sounding read alouds with lots of pictures. The exeption being the Burgess books that are working to build their ability to sit and listen a bit longer with fewer pictures, but the stories were so captivating that they appealed very much to my younger kids (and I find the older ones listening in from around the corner as they are supposed to be working on their math !) There's also a difference in writing ability required. LHFHG is working on basic handwriting books, with coordination-building workbooks alternated with those in the schedule. Beyond requires simple copywork and beginning spelling work-the ability to begin writing sentences, rather than the beginning formation of letters. I honestly wouldn't stress too much about the geography involved, it's a very gentle, fun part of the week that should give basic map-reading to a child needing that, or more advanced comprehension of directions or learning the names of the oceans and continents for a child needing that. They'll probably both pick up some new things to solidify during the year that will be built upon in the following years.

You mentioned grammar, I may suggest that you think about adding in the Rod and Staff grammar book for your older child that is scheduled in Bigger. There aren't any extra activities listed in the manual for that, you just complete a lesson a day so it could easily be added into Beyond to replace the beginning grammar of sentence structure or capital letters/punctuation type lessons that are written in there. The emerging readers schedule is found in Beyond, that sounds perfect for your younger dd. You could start your older ds in DITHOR 2/3 if he's reado for that. Put them each on their own levels of math-if you're doing Singapore that may be a reason you'd want to consider pre-purchasing the Bigger manual. There are corresponding activities written in there for 2A and 2B if your older ds places in those books. Those activities are great to really cement the concepts in the workbooks. After 2A and 2B the activities are no longer written and you'd need to buy the textoook and the workbooks at those higher levels if your dd places in 3A or above. Spelling is also a reason that you may be helped by purchasing the Bigger manual to supplement what your ds is doing in Beyond. Depending on if your ds is above the Spelling levels of the 2 lists in Beyond, Bigger has the beginning dictation passages that you can use in place of a spelling program when he's getting to that level.

Hope some of this helps you! I think you'll love HOD...I think everyone should love HOD, though! Honestly, though from what you've described I think that you'll do very well combining in Beyond. It's a great program!

[lambsmama]

Becky - Thanks for that ... your reply was so helpful!

I'm sort of torn ... part of me thinks it would be really nice to combine them into Beyond. I do worry that my son might fit better into Bigger.

Some questions based on your post:

Spelling: are the spelling lists the same in both guides?

Grammar: The grammar in beyond looks like what we did this year (that my 5 yr old didn't pick up a whole lot of ... but my son did). So, I could do this with her and R&S with him.

Writing: How much writing is there ... Bigger seems to do notebooking. Is there any notebooking in bigger?

Math: My daughter would be starting Singapore 1A ... but my son would fit more into 3A. This is fine, though ... I do not mind this part.

Reading: My son and daughter are both emergent readers...so this works well.

Read Alouds: My son loves read-alouds ... we have a read a few from Beyond already. My daughter would prefer picture books, still.

In some ways I think they could both do Beyond and I would add in a few picture books for my daughter. I would also have to add in some notebooking and grammar (and 3rd grade math). Another part of me wants to do Little Hearts with her and Bigger with him!

[my3sons]

Spelling: are the spelling lists the same in both guides?
Beyond has Spelling List 1 and Spelling List 2.
Bigger Hearts has Spelling List 2 and Dictation Level 2.

Grammar: The grammar in beyond looks like what we did this year (that my 5 yr old didn't pick up a whole lot of ... but my son did). So, I could do this with her and R&S with him.
Sounds like a good plan!

Writing: How much writing is there ... Bigger seems to do notebooking. Is there any notebooking in bigger?
Click on this link and scroll down to "Carrie's" response for an excellent answer to this question...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1516&p=11829

Math: My daughter would be starting Singapore 1A ... but my son would fit more into 3A. This is fine, though ... I do not mind this part.

Reading: My son and daughter are both emergent readers...so this works well.

Read Alouds: My son loves read-alouds ... we have a read a few from Beyond already. My daughter would prefer picture books, still.

In some ways I think they could both do Beyond and I would add in a few picture books for my daughter. I would also have to add in some notebooking and grammar (and 3rd grade math). Another part of me wants to do Little Hearts with her and Bigger with him!

I'd really look over that post Carrie did about the writing in Beyond and Bigger. That should help you know what would be best overall. One thing that is tough is thinking ahead to an almost 7 yo doing Bigger Hearts the following year. You may have to slow things down at that point, but that is easy to do if necessary. What do you think after reading through this?

In Christ,
Julie

[mom23]

I was just getting ready to post a reply to your questions until I noticed that Julie had already answered in BOLD letters. Don't know how I missed seeing that one!

I guess some other things I think are good to consider on combining are 1) How well do the children work together? Do they challenge eachother and have fun working together, or do they get frustrated if someone else seems to do better at something? 2) If you were coming to the placement chart just thinking about each child and where they would honestly place if that were the only one you were homeschooling what would best fit their needs? 3) Is combining really important to your family for some other reason? I have friends who have convictions that they just really think it's best for their families to have everyone working together. For us, I really like the opportunity to give each child some individual attention and I feel it's important to meet each child where they're at. I love that HOD makes homeschooling possible for both types of families! Combining can work for those who feel it's important enough to make it work, and running multiple programs is not so overwhelming or time consuming that it can't be done for other types of families (I found when I uncombined that we actually spent less time on school).

Try not to overthink it too much. If you're thinking HOD could be something you're sticking with for long term, you could always try them combined for a few weeks in Beyond. If you find it's not a good fit, go back and place them in LHFHG and Bigger, knowing that next year you won't have to order Beyond for your younger dd. It's also good to know that HOD will allow you to return anything that you haven't used yet and you could apply that to the cost of a different program if you find you wished you had placed them differently.

[lambsmama]

Julie & Becky -

Thanks for the replies. After reading through Carries post that was linked above, I do think Beyond would not be challenging for my 8 yr old. I do think that he is at the point where Bigger would be hard for him - but not too hard. I do think my daughter could handle it just fine, though, after reading more. Other than really enjoying picture books, still, she could do the reading/writing/history, I believe. I'm wondering if I could add in notebooking activities for him.

The reason I want to combine ... I have 2 smaller kids (and 1 older that has therapy for half the day - for special needs). I don't want to spend all day doing school but don't want to neglect school, either! They work well together for the most part ... they act like best friends. They do challenge each other - sometimes that is bad (especially for the younger one ... she gets pretty upset if her big brother is faster at answering) but sometimes that is good (my oldest seems to be quicker when he knows he is trying to know more than his sister). I will still be separating them out for math. Do you really think it would take less time for me to do both Bigger and Beyond than just to combine them? It seems like it would take 2x as long. I could have my daughter play for a while with the 2 yr old while I was doing school with my son, though. This is tough!

[mom23]

Bigger and Beyond are tough to run back to back...Bigger and Preparing would be tougher next year! I'd lean towards running Bigger and LHFHG if you're separating them, or putting them both in Beyond still doesn't sound like a really bad option to me. You could beef up Beyond-there are other threads on here for doing that if you run a search for it, or for using Beyond for a 3rd grader. In Bigger and after that there are built in extension options for an older child so this would be your only year of needing to do that.

As far as a time issue-separating them could take less time if they are both appropriately placed and you're not having to tweak a guide to make it fit. Combining really works best if you correctly place a younger child and then beef it up for an older one. My problem was trying to meet my kids in the middle-it took so much time making things simple enough for my younger and challenging my older at the same time. It was easier to just put them both where they needed to be. Separating also cut out lots of time that we had previously spent dealing with my younger son's tears and tantrums and attitudes of not being willing to try because things were too hard.

Personally, if my kids placed in back to back guides I would combine them in the younger guide; running Bigger/Beyond at the same time is not going to be a time saver any way you look at it-they are both very teacher-intensive guides. Once you hit Preparing the child starts to take on some more work independently, and then building more independent skills progressively in following years. I think Bigger is the one that takes the most teacher time, and then probably Preparing after that (because although there are more things for the child to do alone, the teacher led times are longer-longer readings, teaching the child written narrations, beginning creative writing, etc) with Beyond at a close 3rd timewise. Preparing and Beyond work well at our house right now, but I would not want to throw Bigger on top of either one of these, personally.

[my3sons]

I think you have 2 options here that are good, and I also think you are on the cusp of having a placement figured out!:D Placement takes some time and careful thought, but then you have a whole year of the joy and contentment a solid placement brings to enjoy ahead of you. So here are the 2 options...

Option 1: Do Beyond with the two of them, making sure younger dd is not overwhelmed, and beefing up for ds if you feel you need to by using some of these ideas...
Carrie explains how to beef up Beyond for a fourth grader:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3247&p=24196

Option 2: Have dd do LHFHG and ds do Bigger Hearts. Your dd could do LHFHG with first grade options if you would like, and Bigger Hearts would be plenty challenging enough as is for ds.

How old will your dc be when you begin in January? I'd not want to do Beyond with a child not getting pretty close to being 6 yo, and looking ahead, I wouldn't want to do Bigger Hearts with anyone younger than 7 yo for sure. Bigger Hearts is a meaty guide. Sometimes combining is a better fit, and sometimes separating is a better fit. There is much to consider in this decision, many outside influences such as relationship of the 2 siblings and how they work together, younger child's response to being really challenged as older brother is more easily doing the work, your thoughts as a mom about whether combining or not combining would be best for your overall family and day, how much time it may take to try to extend Beyond for older ds and if it might be easier just to separate, how you handle running multiple guides yourself (not hard with HOD, but still an overall feeling to consider), etc.

One thought I had too - maybe printing off each of the guides sample first week on line and looking at what is required of each would help you more easily see which option would be better? As other ladies mentioned, I'd not be as inclined to do Beyond and Bigger at the same time, as doing Bigger and PHFHG at the same time can be a challenge for some. So, what are your thoughts now? HTH!

In Christ,
Julie