Poor attitude during school work

[cmh]

After much thought, prayer, and advice given as to what guides to use and what materials to order, we finally ordered, received and started using our new materials last Wednesday. I'm loving HOD and seeing our kids learning together! Our kids are almost 6, 4, 2, and 8 months. Our 4 year old is using LHTH and the almost 6 and 2 year olds jump in with him. He is doing well with it and enjoying it. Our oldest is doing handwriting, math and fine motor from LHFHG, and a little Flip Flop Spanish along with the Bible, devotional, and the drama/Bible activities with LHTH. We are doing 2 days per day as Julie suggested to ramp our 4 year old up in order to combine with our older son in LHFHG sometime toward the end of this year.

So here's the problem. I don't know what to do about our oldest child's attitude toward school work. He grumbles and complains about just about all of his work. We've talked and prayed about it and he tells me he just doesn't want to do it. He'd much rather be playing! We use work boxes so he can visually see what he has to do and what's left. I try to mix up the seat work with the activities. I keep a positive attitude with him and try to stay light hearted about it, but it frustrates and saddens me that he acts this way. I understand that he is young and wants to play, but this curriculum lends itself to short lessons and fun learning, l so I don't know what else to do! Our 4 year old boy loves school and is easy to teach, so it seems like they are just very different and I need to figure out what makes our older boy tick! Our 4 year old is catching up to our 6 year old in The Reading Lesson, which is great for him, but they are competitive so it worries me a little:). This has been a problem with our oldest since last year when we started K with MFW, so it's been something we've been dealing with off and on for awhile. He is an otherwise sweet natured, obedient little guy. This pops up mostly during school time.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I've wondered if he's not challenged enough, but he's still learning phonics and seems on level with his age. I've wondered if I should just put school aside until he's older, but that doesn't sit completely right either. MFW and HOD are both great for wiggly little boys and short in the lessons, so the curriculums have seemed to be a good fit for little boys and this sort of challenge. I keep rambling! I'm at a loss!

Thanks so much!
Christy

[venusmom]

Hi Christy,
I can't offer a ton of advice, but I have a very sweet natured, quiet, contemplative, obedient little boy who is 11. He is a bit more sensitive than any of his other 5 siblings, and so much more sweet and thoughtful (not that they are not great kids, in my biased opinion - but his nature is just different). My others are more boisterous, busy, active and go, go, go...whereas he is my boy that will curl up with a book in his room, build for hours with legos, and still loves to re-enact civil war battles and Alamo battles in the backyard with all the kids from the neighborhood. I say this because his sweet nature also seems to be a little less 'mature' in the sense when it comes to emotions and play. However - this quiet, sweet, friendly child totally knows how to turn on the gripes during school work. Eyes roll, deep sighs, groans, irritation, foot tapping, slipping off to his room if he thinks he can get by with it. It is very hard to deal with.

I'm not sure if this is anything like your son, and given their age differences, they may not sound the same. My son has always enjoyed books, but not like he does now that he's older...but he's always been the same sweet natured, never gets in trouble, kiddo. Truly - he seldom breaks the rules - while his sister seems to daily try to seek breaking yesterday's record for the most rules broken in day or the most messes made!!

Anyways! If there is anything that works for me - you mentioned staying positive, and light hearted...these are incredibly important for him to stay positive. If I begin to get irritable with his grumbling and he can tell it - the complaints just seem to get worse.

What is working for me now is to remind him that we all have things we do not like to do, but we are to do them cheefully. I have used scripture often to try to encourage him to stay positive, and this helps him...such as Proverbs 17:22 "A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." I have had him use some of these positive scriptures as copywork, dictation and had him memorize them.

Also - and I think you said you do this - he needs to know when he will be complete - he does NOT like surprises, and he really needs to know what he needs to get done. He needs to check things off.

I praise his good attitude gently, I don't like to heap on praises for behavior that I expect all the time, but I thank him for his good attitude when he has one.

I have found some things that he seems to enjoy doing and 'tweaked' lessons a bit - for instance, he says he hates to do 'writing', but when I noticed that he loves to write stories if he chooses the material. I turn these into writing lessons, having him proof read his draft and re-write the story with corrections. I have encouraged him to illustrate them and put them together as books on our bookshelf - he feels accomplished in this and will take them down to read his books to the kids instead of the purchased books. But - when the story is first published - we all gather in the living room to be present for the first reading of 'his book'!

It is gradual - and the complaints are by no means completely gone, but he is complaining less than he was. Hope there may be something there that might help you! ashley

[lissiejo]

My oldest is 6 as well and we go through these complaining spells about how it's not fair she has to do work and such. We have verses about complaining that she has memorized and if she doesn't straighten up her attitude she spends some time copying them for her copywork for the day. I have friends who think this is a horrible idea because they see it as using the Bible as punishment and think it will warp her. After doing this a few times I noticed that her entire attitude changes by the end of writing and she is genuinely repentant.

I also like Behavior Boosters. The idea is not that you reward positive behavior with prizes, but just reinforce positive behavior by noticing. (Link removed per board rules by board moderator.) The lady who wrote these is former teacher and current homeschool mom. She came and spoke to our MOPs group this year and was really great.

I really believe this is a heart issue. While I'm more than happy to adjust my homeschooling as needed for the needs of my kids if the issue is complaining and not learning, I'm not all that willing to budge. This is a great time to do some "heart training" with your child. I'm going to take some time right now to pray for you because I know how difficult this is for you both.

[netpea]

It is a heart issue for sure. Our 11yo who is now public schooled started out this way at 8 or 9 and it has gotten worse each year so I am watching for the replies you get from others. We are at a loss how to turn him around.

[montanamom]

My ds4 did this when he started LHTH, but improved as he got use to the 'routine' & now actually asks to do 'school' if I 'forget'!. So it may just take time; however, my dd also did this a bit when she was 6 & just starting out in LHFHG (& time didn't seem to be improving it ). She liked everything in HOD but apparently felt like it took away from her 'free' time For her, two things really helped: 1) I typed up a daily schedule that had all her 'free' time highlighted so she could see just how much 'free' time she had in comparison to 'school'. 2) We start school 1st thing in the morning before she starts playing/doing her own things. Like the other poster's we have also discussed Bible verses like "doing everything without complaining..". We are now finishing Beyond, & though she still loves her 'free' time, she no longer complains about 'school'.

On the phonics issue though, we tried several programs (accompanied with bad attitudes ) before we finally found one that worked for my dd (very hands-on) & that she actually enjoyed. So, you could consider trying different phonics programs if you feel that he's just not 'clicking' with that part of school. Hope that helps!

Pam

[Homeschooln2qts]

((((Hugs to you)))) I think I can relate as well. I have an 11 year old son who sounds a lot like what you described. Rule-follower, sweet natured and very obedient most of the time. However when it comes to school, it's like something takes a dramatic shift and school can be like pulling teeth with him. There's a lot of sighing, grumbling, scrunchy face making, etc... Something mentioned by Venusmom above...

he needs to know when he will be complete - he does NOT like surprises, and he really needs to know what he needs to get done. He needs to check things off.

...reminded me of a "Teaching Tip" posted on the HOD Facebook page not long ago. Here it is:

Teaching Tip:

The older I've gotten, the more I realize the need to keep my kiddos moving along in their day. In my early years of teaching, I was the queen of lingering over subjects and taking bunny trails. As I added more kiddos to my school day, and my kiddos got older, I realized that I was enjoying the lingering much more than they were and that they still perceived all of my bunny trails as "school"... no matter how fun! Especially if you have boys, it may help you to realize that boys are finishers by nature and task completion gives them great pleasure. If they have no idea how long a task may stretch on, they may quickly lose the will to finish! So, with this in mind, I now do only what is in each box of the HOD guide, read each key idea to wrap it up, and linger only over our Bible or character discussions. My boys are happier, and we finish earlier. Try less lingering and see what you think.

I'm not sure if this would apply to your son, but it really helped me with mine. I was so stumped because, like you, any other time of the day, my son didn't have these issues. It was just when it came to his school work. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I did tend to go down the occasional "bunny trail" every now and then (ok, alot ) because, well...Heart of Dakota is just so fascinating to me! But to him, each lesson was a task to be completed, however interesting and he needed to be able to move on once we covered a topic so that he could do that. I felt like a light bulb went off when I realized that my boy like most boys are finishers by nature and need to have that sense of completion and to know when that will take place. Keeping this in mind has helped tremendously. Again, not sure if this applies, but I did want to mention it as a possible culprit.

[deltagal]

2 questions:

1.) how much time are you spending doing "school work" with your 6 yo?
2.) is he a young 6 or an old 6?

[mom23]

Hmm. We also had issues when my son was 6. Maybe it's the age/stage? They have gotten better-phonics was tough for him, that is where I'd see the most problems. Honestly, though, I think sometimes we think these "heart issues" need to be fixed overnight...or atleast in a week! It just takes time I think, and faithfulness on our parts to continue teaching and instructing, and praying! Sounds to me like you're going about things in a good way. Hang in there!

That said, you may want to rule out other issues. We've seen poor attitudes in both of our older children when placement was incorrect-either too high or too low! If you think he's bored, you may want to consider if he's really best served by trying to combine with his younger sibling. I know it seems like it would be easier, but think about how easy it is to deal with these attitudes, and it may very well be easier on everyone-you especially!-to have them placed seperately where they're both appropriately challenged. Consider trying to ramp things up and see if you see an improvement. Or, like pp suggested, you could consider a different approach to phonics. I've done things like that, as well, that have helped. These are the quick, easy fixes, and you'll know if it improves right away with something like this. If not, it may be a heart thing that we all (mom's included) have to struggle through from time to time!

[cmh]

Thank you ladies for all of your wisdom and insight! I think I was unclear about the phonics. The Reading Lesson is great and is working well for both boys. I was just saying on top of an already difficult attitude his little brother isn't too far behind him and I don't want that to cause more issues since they are competitive. Mom23, before I read your post I was sitting here looking over what we need to do for school tomorrow and thinking we may just need to dive into LHFHG to challenge our older son more. When the first grade books that came with LHFHG he sat and looked at them with such excitement and here I am putting off using them to try to ramp up his little brother so we can combine them. Since they are so close as well as close in age it seemed like the obvious choice to combine them, but perhaps not. We are leaving to go on vacation for a few days which will give me some time to figure out how to move forward from here.

Thank you again for everyone's insight! You are all so loving and wise

Christy

[Heidi in AK]

Christy, I wish you well tomorrow! I had a little tug in MT spirit to encourage you to do LHFHG with him, and I'm glad you're going to try that. I'll be praying for you tomorrow!