Supplementing Rev2Rev with Notgrass for HS?

[Tiffini]

We're very happily finishing our 4th year with HOD and already excited about next year! I will be using Rev2Rev with my twin 7th graders and also my 9th grader. I have figured out how to bump everything up for HS credit for her. (Many thanks to Carrie and others for advice on how to do this!)

Here is my question: My oldest has been combined with her twin younger siblings for many years now. We have added extensions in for her and it's been good. However, this year, for high school, she is really wanting to feel that her school is different than theirs and is actually a high school curriculum. I had planned on using Rev2Rev as written with Extensions and adding in extra books, etc. However, I came across Notgrass at our convention this weekend and I loved the American History for high school. Has anyone used this to supplement Rev2Rev for high school and replaced the HOD history with this course? I keep going around and around about it. I know that my twins will use HOD as written. I can't decided if my oldest could just use Notgrass and then I will still have her do all the rest of Rev so we don't miss any of that good stuff. I could have her do the history as written in HOD in addition to Notgrass or I could just replace it with Notgrass. I hate to have her miss ANY of the great HOD books, so I'm in a quandary. Also, since Notgrass includes Literature in it - would I just have her do that Lit and not the Extension package books or do both? I hate to miss those Extension books, too! Having never used Notgrass, I don't know how much time it would take and if this would be doable.

I would love any input, advice, help, or whatever you got! Has anyone else had this issue come up with their high schoolers? As much as she loves the notebooks she's made for the last 4 years, she might be ready to forgo the notebooking and "feel" more like a high schooler.

I must say that once again after having been at a convention and spending hours looking at all the booths, nothing out there compares with what Carrie has put together for HOD. I feel so blessed to have the benefit of all of her hard work!!

[8arrows]

Many people like Notgrass. We personally have never enjoyed it. We have tried, but we find it a little dry. I do like the BJU history texts though. My daughter will be doing REV to REV as a 9th grader next year, and I am looking at it a little differently. I am going to have her read the BJU text (chapters that correspond) and orally review the questions with her, but I am looking at the BJU as the add-on. It would make me sad to have her skip the notebooking pages. I have put two through high school without HOD, and there is a lot of boring high school material out there! I am really looking forward to high school now with HOD. My daughter is still doing the extensions as scheduled. I am sure that each family beefing up REV to REV for high school will look a little different. Would just having a high school labeled text to do alongside REV to REV be enough for your daughter (whether it be Notgrass or something else), without doing everything another program has to offer?

[LynnH]

My dd used Notgrass American and she said it was ok. She did find it dry and was pretty bored with it half way through the year. This coming from someone who has only known textbooks (she was in ps through 9th grade). I think I would use it or something else more as a supplement to the Rev to Rev books. If she is used to using living books for history I think she will be very disappointed by Notgrass. Also nothing is covered very in depth since it is all of American History in 1 year. My dd did a modified version of the Notgrass literature because I felt they rushed through the books and there wasn't any type of real questions or analysis. She only did 7 of the books and I added a few lit guides.

[davisfam7]

Tiffini,
My oldest two are finishing up Rev2Rev right now, and we used Notgrass Government and plan on doing Notgrass Economics along with the new guide next year. They have done the extensions with Rev2Rev and have enjoyed every book. My 9th grade son was not a big reader before this school year. The Notgrass Government book is a little on the dry side, but it is short and simple to use, so for us it was an easy add-on to up the content level. Carrie suggests using 5,000 Year Leap and the Federalist Papers to up the credit. My 9th grade son did not care for the 5,000 Year Leap, and while Notgrass might not be all that exciting, he doesn't mind doing it and it is easy for me to keep track of. I think if you supplement the Notgrass History Lit. for the extensions, you might be disappointed. The extension books are really great books!!!
Just my .2 cents.

[Tiffini]

I appreciate these replies so much! It really helps to get this feedback. So, help me think through this some more...

Do I understand it correctly that the History portion as written PLUS extension books is enough for HS credit for American history? BUT we can add on a history text along as well if we want to - or is it necessary to add that History text to be able to award the credit? I saw that with The American Testimony DVD set, Carrie said that using that along with Ext. was enough for a HS credit. How many here who used Rev2Rev for HS have added to the History - and what did you add to it? I really do lean towards just doing HOD with Ext. because it is SO much more interesting than any other way of doing it.

I do want to bump up things to be able to award the Govt. credit. Sarah, you said you used Notgrass Govt. to do that. I had thought of doing that when I looked at the materials this weekend. The author of Notgrass said he didn't really recommend the Govt. book for 9th grade and that it might be too difficult. Did you feel that your child did fine with it? One thing that I really liked about it was that it had the separate book that included a lot of source documents, speeches, and other things that I thought would really add to the Govt. study and I wouldn't have to look them up online, but just have them all compiled in one book. Did you use that book?

Anyone else who has used Rev2Rev for HS, please do chime in and let me know what you did to bump up for HS credit. I love this board!!

[davisfam7]

We did use the Source text that came with the Notgrass Government set. My 15 yo son and 13 yo daughter have been using it without any difficulties. We usually read the lesson together and then I have them answer the questions for each lesson on their own and then we discuss them. Or if it is really busy, then I have them read it themselves and they have to come and orally narrate to me what was read. This seems to be working well for us. Also we spread this course out over the school year. So instead of doing it in 1 semester we were able to take longer on a lesson if they were having a hard time understanding it. I think it is going well and they seem to be understanding it. This is how I plan to use the Economics course along with MTMM next year. We will do the guide with extensions and then add in Economics one or two days a week over the course of the year. I think my kids have had a better understanding of the Government book because of all the great books Carrie has them reading. So a lot of the concepts are either picked up or reinforced in the other reading they do. It has been a good fit for us this year. I hope that helps some!

[blessed2five]

I am having a lot of these same thoughts and questions as I prepare to teach my dd 9th grade next year using Rev2Rev. My initial thoughts were to use Rev2Rev with extensions as written and add in government. Then I started to question if this would be "enough" for a HS credit. I really want her to understand US history at a HS level. I too have pondered adding in a HS text such as BJU or even the US series by Hakin to give her more substance to what is in Rev2 Rev, but now I am questioning if this would be too much?? I don't want to lose the flavor of HOD by just adding on more things if I don't need to. Since she only needs 1 US history credit I may go ahead and just assign .5 credit each year for history and not add to it at all above the extensions. I agree with the other posters, I need reassurance that HOD Rev2Rev will be enough for a true HS experience.

Also, I am having trouble deciding about her English credit. What is everybody else going to use for their writing/literature credit? The only thing I am sure about is R&S. I really want my dd to analyze literature from a Biblical perspective and so far have looked at Smarr's Intro into Literature and didn't really think my dd would like the chosen books too much. I also have looked at LL American literature which is not Biblical and lacks writing instruction. IEW Windows to the World and Teaching the Classics just looked intimidating and very time consuming. I have also looked at Excellence in Literature and some of Stobaugh's classes and remain confused and overwhelmed!! I need something that she can do pretty independently but gives her a well rounded literature and writing experience . Any ideas or thoughts?? Again, I don't want to add too much that it will take her away from what is in HOD.

I too would love to hear from those who have already walked in these shoes!!

Thank you

[Tiffini]

Thank you, Sarah! That is very helpful information. I really liked the looks of the Govt. course and had thought of doing the same thing of spreading it out over one year with Rev2Rev to be able to assign credit and then using the Econ course for MTMM the following year. I really like that book of source documents!

Blessed2Five, here is what I'm considering for Lit next year. I really like CLE's Perspectives of Life in Literature course. It is for 9th and 10th grade. It includes many wonderful authors and themes. My daughter used the 8th grade course and found it to be very beneficial in her spiritual growth and literary understanding. She really wants to continue using it next year which is saying something! It is a collection of writings which I like for the purpose of lit analysis (and the lit analysis is from a very Christian perspective) rather than dissecting the whole books for lit analysis. Then I plan on having her just read the excellent whole books that I want for lit without having to do the analysis work on them so that she can just soak up and enjoy the stories. I think I'm going to use much of Carrie's list found here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7765 that she used with her 9th grade son for that.

Again, I want to reiterate that no matter how many times I've looked at other materials, there is nothing that compares to HOD. For my younger ones, I am SO excited that the high school will be put together and that we can just use it and go! I really can't wait! I continue to keep Carrie in prayer as she writes and sacrifices so much to benefit all of us and our children.

[deltagal]

I am having a lot of these same thoughts and questions as I prepare to teach my dd 9th grade next year using Rev2Rev. My initial thoughts were to use Rev2Rev with extensions as written and add in government. Then I started to question if this would be "enough" for a HS credit. I really want her to understand US history at a HS level. I too have pondered adding in a HS text such as BJU or even the US series by Hakin to give her more substance to what is in Rev2 Rev, but now I am questioning if this would be too much?? I don't want to lose the flavor of HOD by just adding on more things if I don't need to. Since she only needs 1 US history credit I may go ahead and just assign .5 credit each year for history and not add to it at all above the extensions. I agree with the other posters, I need reassurance that HOD Rev2Rev will be enough for a true HS experience.

Also, I am having trouble deciding about her English credit. What is everybody else going to use for their writing/literature credit? The only thing I am sure about is R&S. I really want my dd to analyze literature from a Biblical perspective and so far have looked at Smarr's Intro into Literature and didn't really think my dd would like the chosen books too much. I also have looked at LL American literature which is not Biblical and lacks writing instruction. IEW Windows to the World and Teaching the Classics just looked intimidating and very time consuming. I have also looked at Excellence in Literature and some of Stobaugh's classes and remain confused and overwhelmed!! I need something that she can do pretty independently but gives her a well rounded literature and writing experience . Any ideas or thoughts?? Again, I don't want to add too much that it will take her away from what is in HOD.

I too would love to hear from those who have already walked in these shoes!!

Thank you

Hi Emily,

I can sooooo relate to your struggle. We've been using HOD for several years and it's great, but I too am wrestling with the choices for my soon-to-be high school sophomore. The blessing of HOD has been the fine-tuning of the guides across the curriculum, but when we need to sub in things for high-school credit I become concerned about over or under doing. As a result, I have for the first time in several years started looking at other curriculums, just to see if I can find that "balance" again that I appreciated so much about HOD up until we hit the high-school years. So, no answers here, just saying I'm right there with you!

[Tiffini]

Florence, were you happy with what you did to beef up Rev2Rev for 9th grade? Are you wondering if it was enough? Has Carrie put out her recommendations yet for beefing up M2MM for high school? I'm just curious why you are not sure about next year at this point. Just entering the HS arena myself, I am having a hard time trusting my own judgment for knowing what is enough and what is not enough. That's why I'm leaning so heavily on Carrie's recommendations. But, then, when I think back to my own HS experiences, I feel like no matter what, if we are using HOD and beefing it up, my kid will still get waaaay more than I ever got in HS.

I have looked extensively at other HS programs this year and was able to look at most of them in person at the convention this past weekend. I was very disappointed with them and how they compared to our experience with HOD. At first, I thought I would go with one of them just to reassure myself that it was all worthy of HS credit, but when I looked at them in person, nothing seemed like something we would really enjoy. Thus, my decision to stick with HOD and beef it up for 9th grade.

This is a great discussion and I'm appreciating everyone's perspectives.

[davisfam7]

Tiffini and Florence,
Here is my plan for what it is worth:
Keep in mind I have a 9th grade son and 8th grade daughter who works on the same level or above my 9th grade son. I have always planned for them to do 4 years of highschool together and then my daughter will use her 12th grade year either taking CLEP tests or dual enrollment at the college close by us.

9th grade: R2R as written with extensions, also the state study and the signers; Government added over the course of the year, We added a few Lit. guides from TLP
and Progeny Press with a little DITHOR thrown in They are doing the Exploration Education Physical Science with the Advanced kit and an on-line
Anatomy & Physiology course (1 semester only)

10th grade: MTMM with extension and adding in Economics, Movies as Literature (my son has been begging to do this and it's been on our shelf for a few years. . .so why
not!) A few more TLP or Progeny Press Lit guides If I feel we need it. Biology, either ACE or Science Shepherd, not sure which one yet, and Total Health

11th grade: Geography Guide as written for Highschool and Chemistry

12th grade: World history guide as written for Highschool; ? science (probably let each one choose something that interests them)

We need geography, world History and two years of American History where we live. Usually the American History is done in 11th and 12th grades, but I just flipped them to be 9th and 10th grades since those are the guides that would be available. This way we will get it all in just in a different order. I have been really happy with the extensions and have only had to minimaly beef up anything. We have also added Spanish to this which they will do all four years.

Anyway, hope that helps. I also add more to my daughter's load than to my son's. He is a typical boy who would rather be out doing heavy work than sitting inside and doing school. With that said, I feel he is getting a very well rounded education with HOD. This year has grown a love of reading in him that no other curriculum we have used has been able to do. That speaks volumes to me!

[deltagal]

Florence, were you happy with what you did to beef up Rev2Rev for 9th grade? Are you wondering if it was enough? Has Carrie put out her recommendations yet for beefing up M2MM for high school? I'm just curious why you are not sure about next year at this point. Just entering the HS arena myself, I am having a hard time trusting my own judgment for knowing what is enough and what is not enough. That's why I'm leaning so heavily on Carrie's recommendations. But, then, when I think back to my own HS experiences, I feel like no matter what, if we are using HOD and beefing it up, my kid will still get waaaay more than I ever got in HS.

I have looked extensively at other HS programs this year and was able to look at most of them in person at the convention this past weekend. I was very disappointed with them and how they compared to our experience with HOD. At first, I thought I would go with one of them just to reassure myself that it was all worthy of HS credit, but when I looked at them in person, nothing seemed like something we would really enjoy. Thus, my decision to stick with HOD and beef it up for 9th grade.

Hmmmm. For starters I think your comment of it being waaaay more than you ever got in HS is true for me, as well. I think in short, I think I'm weary of having to piece everything together. The beauty of HOD for me was that the plan was laid out. Now, since these aren't "true" high-school guides I need to "beef-up" for science, english, foreign language, electives, Bible. Beginning with the Rev2Rev guide the extensions make the history credit-worthy, so that area is not a concern. My "weak" area prior to HOD was that I tended to overdo certain areas. And as I add everything in that I believe we need to do, it just seems like sooooo much. So, that in short continues to be my challenge. As far as RTR this year - I really love the notebooking pages, geography, and history work. My son was not happy with the Bible QT or the Devotional Quiet Time. He really felt like it was a bit "young" for him, but of course he is a 14/15 yo using a guide for 6th graders. We, of course, subbed in high-school worthy science, foreign language and literature/composition courses. We did not use the Storytime, because of the literature course. So, my plan has been to use HOD for high-school, but my son has changed a great-deal from the boy he was when I was pulling this all together. He's a young man now and is ready for much more than he was a year or so ago. In truth, as he gets older, the guides just feel "young" for him. He could placement-wise skip to the new guide, but then he would be missing a year of American History. Just looking closer at Rev to Rev I really like the "idea" of the state study and the signers, etc., but I wonder if it is "old-enough" for a 10th grader. I have the same questions about the Independent History. all great content. And I really like the methodology, but I'm also trying to be sensitive to the fact that I'm working with a young man, not a boy. Those are my areas of struggle. Thank you for listening.

[Tiffini]

I read this yesterday and I thought it was good advice:

"When thinking about curriculum for your high school student, you want to do what works–whatever you have been doing through elementary and junior high– if it’s working, keep doing it. If the curriculum is working, keep using those curriculum choices."

HOD does work for us and that's why I'm leery of switching to another type of curriculum just because she's going to be in high school.

Florence, I completely understand what you are saying. That's exactly what I meant when I said that my daughter just wants something a bit "older" for her now that she is in high school. It's a tough dilemma. I do think that we are going to make Rev2Rev work for her, though, and that I may allow her to skip some of the "younger" activities. And what I'm adding in will definitely be hard enough to make her "feel" that she is doing much harder and high school level work. It is going to be fairly simple for me to add in the extras as far as planning goes and we'll use the 5th day for a lot for that. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and struggles. It is good to know that others are going through the same questions.

Sarah, thank you so much for sharing what you are doing. I think my plan will be very similar to yours. We are doing foreign language now and I like the idea of doing Total Health next year, too. It sounds like you're having a very successful HS experience!

[deltagal]

I read this yesterday and I thought it was good advice:

"When thinking about curriculum for your high school student, you want to do what works–whatever you have been doing through elementary and junior high– if it’s working, keep doing it. If the curriculum is working, keep using those curriculum choices."

HOD does work for us and that's why I'm leery of switching to another type of curriculum just because she's going to be in high school.

I agree. The last 3 plus years with HOD have been very good for my children (and for me)!

[blessed2five]

Sarah, Tiffini and Florence,

Thank you for all your great ideas. I have even more to look at and consider for next year. I will add in one thing and that is my son is finishing MFW AHL for 9th grade and I actually think my dd in RTR has more work than he does with his core subjects of history, Bible and English. So I think we will be fine if Rev2Rev increases in difficulty and amount for next year. The only reason I didn't put my ds in HOD was because I knew he wouldn't want to do all the artsy type projects or the notebooking. On the other hand this is what my two girls are loving in HOD this year.

I also agree that the Bible being "too childish" was a complaint I heard from my dd this year, so I will supplement her Bible with whatever my son will be doing next year with MFW.

I too am looking at Total Health, it looks like a great program. I will probably hold off another year because my dd will also be taking Spanish 2 and a photography class with FLVS.

Is everyone going to use the writing program recommended in Rev2Rev? Just curious.

You ladies have all been great and I am looking forward to seeing everyone's final HS plans!