Questions about Rod and Staff English......

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Allison TX
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:36 pm

Questions about Rod and Staff English......

Post by Allison TX » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:41 pm

We just finished our 3rd week of Bigger and I couldn't be happier! We are all loving HOD! :D But, I am not crazy about R&S English. My 2nd grader is using level 2 and my third grader is using level 3. The work isn't too hard, I just keep wondering why its necessary to learn formal grammar at this age. I am tempted to go back to Primary Language Lessons. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Allison

inHistiming
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Post by inHistiming » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:00 pm

If the lessons are easier than you would like, you could try skipping some of the review lessons. Maybe moving ahead to something they haven't done would help? I haven't started the R&S yet. I'm sure some other ladies will have more to add. :)

Polly
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What about the Queen Language Lessons books?

Post by Polly » Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:25 pm

I've noticed they are sold on the HOD site, but I haven't figured out how they tie in. We've used one of them this year, with our first grader and really liked it. I won't be starting HOD until the fall. I'm thinking I will continue with Queen Language Lessons.

Carrie, if your reading this, I'd love for you to respond. I've wondered why you sell the Queen books.
Polly

susie in ms
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Post by susie in ms » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:36 pm

Just wanted to say "Hey Polly!!" :D I'll be emailing you soon. Probably tomorrow. I have just been really busy.

I did notice that Queen's Language Lessons are for DITHOR. Not sure how, though, as I have never seen that particular guide.
Susie ~ servant to Christ, wife to Ricky for 25 years, mom to Trisha 22, Kris 21, Joshua 19 and Hannah Grace almost 4.
Loving Little Hands to Heaven!

Ronda
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Post by Ronda » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:32 pm

Hi gals,
Carrie answered a similar question about Queen Language Lessons here:

http://www.heartofdakota.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=497

HTH!
Ronda
Married 26 years to one wonderful husband!
Mama to 5 great kids
22, 18, 11, 10, & 6

Melanie
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Re: Questions about Rod and Staff English......

Post by Melanie » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:23 pm

Allison TX wrote:We just finished our 3rd week of Bigger and I couldn't be happier! We are all loving HOD! :D But, I am not crazy about R&S English. My 2nd grader is using level 2 and my third grader is using level 3. The work isn't too hard, I just keep wondering why its necessary to learn formal grammar at this age. I am tempted to go back to Primary Language Lessons. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Allison
I don't think CM rec. formal grammar until around age 10, so you'd probably be safe to just to use whatever floats your boat so to speak until you hit about 5th grade. (How's that for a technical answer!) :lol:

I don't plan to start R&S until about 3rd or 4th grade. We are using the Lang. Lesson books now and I do enjoy them. The picture and poetry studies are wonderful. Using those books has also helped to teach me how to be more CMish with other things and how to make my phonics/spelling lessons more CMish (my new word for the day).

I have looked at PLL samples and I love the looks of it as well. I think they (PLL and ILL) would last you up to about 5th grade, and then you might want to switch to something with a little more "umph".

Glad to hear how much you are enjoying Bigger!
:D Mel
Using LHFHG with
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Carrie
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Post by Carrie » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:14 pm

Allison,

The ladies are right that Charlotte Mason did not advocate starting formal grammar instruction into age 10 or even later. She felt all grammar could be absorbed in a single year with review after that. I was definitely on board with her idea when we switched to a VERY CM education for my oldest son during his third grade year. But, even CM's own grammar book (republished by Karen Andreola as Simply Grammar) needs to be used more than once over time in order to cement the grammar concepts. Catherine Levinson, a leading CM educator, mentions using Simply Grammar two or three times to get retention from her kiddos. So, grammar is not a one-shot deal as we'd love it to be. :lol:

Also, due to the upped requirements in states with writing assessments, we found it necessary to do an earlier introduction to formal grammar than CM proposed, in order to have a common language about how to write better. For example, to point out whether kiddos are writing in complete sentences, they need to understand what a subject and predicate are and what is missing from their sentence (making it a fragment). :wink:

If we wish to have the child add more detail, it is VERY helpful for kiddos to understand what adjectives and adverbs are and how they function within a sentence. When we ask for written answers, it also helps if they can compose their sentences in a way that makes sense (with parallel usage). When asking kiddos to fix sentences that aren't grammatically correct, it helps if the kiddos know their basic parts of speech. :D

Also, for the mechanics and usage portion of standardized tests (Iowa Basics or SAT's) kiddos need to understand use of commas, end punctuation, and capitalization. So, even though it makes sense to delay formal grammar instruction, we are forced by the state to show progress in these areas by the way we report to them. In our state of South Dakota, we also have writing assessments that must be turned in yearly, which are scored partially based on grammar. :roll:

At HOD, we use copywork, dictation, oral narration (and later written narration), poetry, and literature in a very Charlotte Mason way. We delay formal grammar instruction until "Bigger...". However, at that point we find it easier to do a little grammar instruction each day rather than waiting for a heavy introduction to grammar later. That happens to be our philosophy. :D

If your heart is leading you toward a different grammar program, by all means follow it! That is the beauty of HOD. But, for the record, I will say that Rod and Staff while not flashy, does get the job done. For the time I put into teaching grammar in the past (including "Intermediate Language Lessons"), I will say that Rod and Staff sticks much better making the teaching time better spent for me! :wink:

Blessings,
Carrie

Allison TX
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:36 pm

Post by Allison TX » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:46 pm

Thank you for all the replies! :) I really appreciate all the helpful ladies on this board. :D

Carrie, thank you for your response. It helps me to understand why you selected R&S for English. I am going to continue with it. My kids don't mind it so I probably shouldn't either. :) And now I realize that everything I like so much about PLL and Intermediate Language Lessons is already scheduled into Bigger. Thanks for taking the time to explain. :)

Allison

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